2010 Interview Discussion

[nemesis]

getting really hard to swallow that theyll take a 30R but not my 34Q

 

sigh

 

Man, there are ppl with 40+ MCAT scores that are being rejected!

 

Those are the ppl who got truly shafted!

 

and to think i was ecstatic when my VR jumped from 9 - 11 on my second MCAT (which i took just for Queens). Little did i know back then it was all for naught with the R coming up. Never thought scoring in the 95% percentile would make me feel so stupid, thats for sure

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Are you going to re-write if it doesn't work out this cycle?

[sv3]

Man, there are ppl with 40+ MCAT scores that are being rejected!

 

Those are the ppl who got truly shafted!

 

 

 

Are you going to re-write if it doesn't work out this cycle?

 

i think lots of people got shafted if thats what you want to call it

 

no, i will not re-write. I'll be applying to the US as Queen's was my best bet and its gone now. I haven't been in school for 5 yrs, haven't done a science course in 7 years. Taking the MCAT this past summer was absolutely life-draining and call me stubborn, but if a 34R or 35Q isn't good enough, then that's that. Maybe next year its an S and they don't need interviews, just accept everyone at 30+ with an S. Who knows. I took the MCAT a second time for just one school and don't want to do it again.

[nemesis]

i think lots of people got shafted if thats what you want to call it

 

no, i will not re-write. I'll be applying to the US as Queen's was my best bet and its gone now. I haven't been in school for 5 yrs, haven't done a science course in 7 years. Taking the MCAT this past summer was absolutely life-draining and call me stubborn, but if a 34R or 35Q isn't good enough, then that's that. Maybe next year its an S and they don't need interviews, just accept everyone at 30+ with an S. Who knows. I took the MCAT a second time for just one school and don't want to do it again.

 

Agreed, I wouldn't re-write either.

[HBP]

Man, there are ppl with 40+ MCAT scores that are being rejected!

 

Those are the ppl who got truly shafted!

 

you're right, i didn't truly get shafted

 

[nemesis]

i think lots of people got shafted if thats what you want to call it

 

no, i will not re-write. I'll be applying to the US as Queen's was my best bet and its gone now. I haven't been in school for 5 yrs, haven't done a science course in 7 years. Taking the MCAT this past summer was absolutely life-draining and call me stubborn, but if a 34R or 35Q isn't good enough, then that's that. Maybe next year its an S and they don't need interviews, just accept everyone at 30+ with an S. Who knows. I took the MCAT a second time for just one school and don't want to do it again.

 

You already tried to appeal the WS score, no?

 

you're right, i didn't truly get shafted

 

 

No worries man, your MCAT is golden for McMaster, Toronto, and probably Western.

[sv3]

You already tried to appeal the WS score, no?

 

yeah, never took the Q for granted. I explained how i had an R eights days ago and felt i performed the same. They disagreed. I don't know if they even care that much about the WS scoring seeing as how the very large majority of test takers apply to schools that don't even care about it (the US).

 

so yeah, i tried everything.

 

PS (I'm a grad applicant with a not-hot GPA, hence my dissapointment with this result)

[nemesis]

yeah, never took the Q for granted. I explained how i had an R eights days ago and felt i performed the same. They disagreed. I don't know if they even care that much about the WS scoring seeing as how the very large majority of test takers apply to schools that don't even care about it (the US).

 

so yeah, i tried everything.

 

PS (I'm a grad applicant with a not-hot GPA, hence my dissapointment with this result)

 

If there ever were circumstances that warranted an upgrade from WS=Q to WS=R then you had 'em! What a crappy situation and result.

 

Does your GPA issue mean you didn't apply to Western? I guess Toronto is your next best bet then.

[sv3]

If there ever were circumstances that warranted an upgrade from WS=Q to WS=R then you had 'em! What a crappy situation and result.

 

Does your GPA issue mean you didn't apply to Western? I guess Toronto is your next best bet then.

 

thanks bud

 

Yeah Toronto is it. Thing is, Queens throws out the gpa at the interview stage. My GPA will still haunt me at every other school even if i did fluke out an interview. So that's the downside to the upside.......

 

Ya i followed the exact same method for the WS for both tests. Was hoping desperately for the R. They wer every quick in reviewing (6 weeks total) - likely cause i challenged in Oct after the MCAT season was over.

 

In the back of my mind, i said to myself "Even if it goes to an R, perhaps there's a numerical score that gets you past it if you are close".

 

But hey, there's a lot of smart people who got bumrushed along with me....

[admit]

I'll add some more fuel to the file.. This is only speculation at this point, but a few months ago I called the admissions office and asked them about my situation. Long and short of it is, I asked if my MCAT score; PS - 11, Vr - 12, BS - 9, WS - R, would be sufficient to get an interview. In a very conspiratorial tone the lady told me to expect an interview.

I haven't received an email either way yet, but it is possible that the sciences must therefore be at least 9 (this accords with the PS - 9 acceptance that we already know).

But, as I say, I don't know for sure.

[supafield]

^If true... then 9,10(V),9 (30) R would be for the win.

 

I'm super surprised you were able to get any response beyond Sorry, I can't reveal that information.

Especially a "few months" ago... before they had even started receiving applications.

[admit]

I know, fair enough, so take my post for what its worth - which is just rumour at this point.

I'll just add, that my situation is somewhat unique so perhaps that is why she was more open with me. It is also why I am keeping this post devoid of any other identifying information, on the off chance that they browse this forum..

[itimebomb2]

People here may wonder why MCAT requirements have gone up, even though the number of medical school spots have nearly doubled in the last 10 years, and the total writing the MCAT has only gone up marginally.

 

When I went to UofT medicine, the MCAT was used as a flag, but the cuts were only 8, 8, 8, N (with a single 7 acceptable in verbal). Queen's had 9 and 10 V cutoffs with totals requiring only 30-31 (but N or P WS), and the only hard thing for the UWO cutoff was a Q (or even a P at times!).

 

Now there were lots of people in my class with 35+ MCAT and 3.95 GPAs. But two big things have happened recently.

 

1. Grade inflation. This has been discussed ad nauseum - but some programs, like Health Sciences, set most of their class averages at 3.9, and increase the pool of super high inflated GPAs.

 

2. Computer MCATS that are A) SHORT and AVAILABLE year round

 

A) SHORT - this allows for greater variablilty, even if the average is the same. In the mid 1990s, when only 2 exams were available a year, little variation occured for most students between different exams because there were alot more questions to avoid the randomness of guessing or peculiar passages that some people may luck out on. The shorter exam allows for HUGE variability. In other words, an average applicant could luck out and score 1-2 points more than they would on average on luck alone - something that would not occur in the past. The typewritten WS has also led to scores to rise - probably because some well written but illegible essays historically were scored lower.

 

MULTIPLE TIMES TO WRITE - people just keep writing and writing until they meet the cutoffs at some schools...and keep applying year after year after year.

 

So schools like UWO and Queen's have a problem. Every year, all their rejects can apply again and expect interviews (especially with people applying again and again, unlike the past when people would move on with another career), while the new upcoming students that meet the old cuts, also expect interviews. And people writing the MCAT again and again and again, leads to some people eventually making the cuts based on random luck alone. Hence the need to change things around with random 11s (bio - at UWO) and Rs (at Queen's).

 

The old MCAT kept MCAT inflation at a mininum, and old class averages being set at 65 kept grade inflation at a mininum, and also allowed people a bit of leeway to improve if the screwed up one year or took classes in a hard program.

 

Just some info for people frustrated by the process. In the end, only 100 people will get into Queens, no matter how many they interview or how they select them. And all those that don't get in will feel upset.

 

I think what has been called "grade inflation" is probably better described as dramatic changes in the cultural mindset of today's university students, and possibly the improvement of teaching and learning with the advent of modern learning tools.

 

I daresay that today's undergrads have much more knowledge than those 20 years ago - its just a matter of fact. We have computers, modern evidence based teaching and learning techniques... and most importantly - we have ASIANS and BROWN PEOPLE.

 

Who's going to deny that the average immigrant kid works much harder and performs significantly better than the average canadian white person? Not to be racist, but if you look at the Health Sciences program at McMaster - the vast majority (maybe 80%) are asian our brown, which is highly disproportionate to the actual number of asians and brown people in society. The same can be said to some extend of medical schools.

[ChicoMaki]

 

I daresay that today's undergrads have much more knowledge than those 20 years ago - its just a matter of fact. We have computers, modern evidence based teaching and learning techniques... and most importantly - we have ASIANS and BROWN PEOPLE.

 

Who's going to deny that the average immigrant kid works much harder and performs significantly better than the average canadian white person? Not to be racist, but if you look at the Health Sciences program at McMaster - the vast majority (maybe 80%) are asian our brown, which is highly disproportionate to the actual number of asians and brown people in society. The same can be said to some extend of medical schools.

 

Closer to 65%

[Byrne]

I think what has been called "grade inflation" is probably better described as dramatic changes in the cultural mindset of today's university students, and possibly the improvement of teaching and learning with the advent of modern learning tools.

 

Agree with this statement -- I know a lot of current physicians (around my parents' age) that claim they would not have been able to go through what we have to go through today to get into medical school.

[md-equation]

Well My personality Professor U.Schimmack did a study on intelligence.

 

Intelligence has increased over the past 20 years. The average intelligence was about 90 but now its 115. That agian could be do to more computer exposer etc. Alot of people today go to undergraduate because it is required of them. In 1970, it wasn't that bad if you didnt have a undergraduate degree. All you needed was a hs diploma and you were set. Things have changed. With advancing technology, the require knowledge has increased dramatically.

 

Now since we are talkin about diversity, i agree with descartes that you can go to a less diverse university and get high grades. Now that depends on the demographic of the city it self. Alot of different cultures like people like my self of south asian etheticity, are encouraged to go to school at the age of 3, study study study and become something big later on wards in life. Yes this seems like those families you see on t.v but the south asian culture where independence, extraversion and stuff like that isnt emphasised as much as it is in the western or european cultures. Thus we live in a very strict enviroment. well most of us. Not to say that no other culture does this, but this is a general trend. Cultures that are collective will emphasis these types of enviroments.

 

That also explains why your stats prove that white people do better than any other race int he USMLE. I learned about this in class. It could be do to a number of things. The wording of the question seems difficult for other cultures where english may not be emphasised as much. What they think a word mean may not mean the same as another person accounting for the differences. There are many factors that can be talked about.

[bigbuffblackboy]

Descartes, you're a bad mutha****a. You've got some really good posts.

[itimebomb2]

Descartes points are strong and they no doubt make up part of the truth.

 

USMLE data is far from proving against my initial point which is that a disproportionate amount of asian and black people GET INTO medical school in the first place. How well they do when they get in seems to be fairly irrelevant at that point, since they've already reached a pinnacle of academic success; plus, as Descartes wrote, the advantage that whites have is minimal.

 

That being said, the dominance of asian and brown students at every other level of education besides medical school is undeniable. This fact is also well researched and documented - not to mention painfully obvious for anybody who goes to school these days. Thus race seems to also play a role in this alleged "grade inflation".

[itimebomb2]

 

What I would suggest you do, if you are in university, is ask any department for a copy of the calculus or physics or chemistry finals from 20-30 years ago. And compare it to a modern exam. UofToronto does allow this (and the records are archived in their libraries). The difficulty difference is mind boggling - the expectations were much higher then. My father has his records from high school in Toronto - where the class averages were set at C-C+. The comments were detailed in the report cards, and there was a formal letter from the principal. The high school tests were HARD - nothing compared to ones even I wrote in high school. If your father was born in Canada and kept his old exams/report cards, ask to look at them.

 

This anecdotal evidence seems difficult to believe. It may be possible that our parents lived in an age where manual work was more challenging - physics, and mathematics etc - but there's no reason to believe that they were better students just because their questions were harder and they got their correspondingly lower grades. Today's education systems emphasize problem solving and learning skills rather than manual tasks - with the advent of technology it should only be natural that we should be able to perform the same tasks with greater efficiency and therefore relative to our predecessors, should obtain higher grades.

 

I too am close friends with numerous physicians, all of whom have personally expressed to me how much more difficult it is to get into medical school these days. I doubt Descartes or anyone has ever encountered a physician who has claimed the opposite. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[sfinch]

I agree with Descartes on many points. Grade inflation is real. And the west used to value education highly - it's why those countries were the most advanced by far until recently - education used to be highly valued. Old white guys with only high school educations in Interior BC were amazingly often well read with authors like Kipling and Atwood, and followed world affairs - at least near Nelson where I grew up. People with a high school education alone today know nothing. Those is the past knew basic accounting, how to run a business, how basic machines worked, world geography, classic literature etc. Standards have gone down. Same is true in the USA. I saw a documentary on ABC showing expectations of 1920 New York State education compared to today - there is no comparison. That old school stuff was much harder.

 

However I disagree with how Descartes thinks whites score better than asians. First of all, when I think of asian, I'm thinking chinese, japanese, or korean. Not pacific islander, indian, pakistani and filipino. Those latter groups, which don't perform as well as the people we think of as 'asians', lower the usmle scores artificially. Secondly, asians are disproportionatly already in medical school - and some maybe almost forced - so comparing them to the whites is not really fair. Maybe comparing the average of the top 50% of asian medical students to the average of the top 80% of whites would be fair. I'm pretty sure then that the chinese/korean/japanese students would come out on top, at least today.

 

I'm not sure asians dominate academics as much as itimebomb thinks though...at least not brown people. The top winners of the science, bio, math, chem competitions in canada and the world are dominated by asians and whites - hardly any indians at all. And most major breakthroughs and inventions are done by whites - though I think asians will eventually dominate as their numbers among the educated rises.

 

Anyways...my two cents on a challenging issue.

 

And demographic change, while occuring, is not that rapid. Vancouver high schools and universities were majority asian 15 years ago - and UBC grades were still averaged at around 65. UofT is maybe 70% asian, with their science programs 80% asian, and their classes have 65-68% averages. So no, I don't think race has lead to much grade inflation at places that have kept standards.

[pummylvr]

I have decided to finally post.

Good luck to everyone here with interviews.

Descartes has some interesting points.

Sfinch seems like a jerk.

If itimesbomb was white, he'd sound like Rushton.

The R is too high, but that's how life is sometimes, not fair.

[future_doc]

Nothing is simple, the Nobel prize winner stats would lead to differing conclusions if they were to be considered a benchmark as regards those enlightening and improving the world. It is what it is and all peoples have intelligence. Another lottery perhaps.

[future_doc]

The R is too high, but that's how life is sometimes, not fair.

 

When we are on the adcom, we can change it back.

[neuronix]

which conclusions are those?

 

 

Nothing is simple, the Nobel prize winner stats would lead to differing conclusions if they were to be considered a benchmark as regards those enlightening and improving the world. It is what it is and all peoples have intelligence. Another lottery perhaps.

[future_doc]

I was responding to post 165, sfinch. I am making no conclusions other than all peoples have intelligence.

[FifthBusiness]

sfinch, how on earth can you claim that those from India are in any way less intelligent than others? Have you ever seen the Spelling Bee on ESPN?!?

Arguing about which races are smarter than others is absolutely pointless. I am studying at likely the top medical institution in North America where I work among Asians, Indians, African Americans, Hispanics .... There is no one racial group here that outperforms others. Once you're at the super keener pre-med level, there's really no difference between the brilliant white, Indian, Asian etc ...