class size :(

[sv3]

50 med students is a big difference in terms of funding for residency. Excluding what the medical student costs, those 50 additional med students will require the U of A to increase it's residency positions by 50, translating into an extra $15-25,000,000.

 

Yup. 25 million dollars.

 

I think that this might be part (rightly or wrongly) of the government's rationale.

 

But the residency funding is 4 years out - and the economy is projected to be quite healthy then. Heck, surprisingly, it's getting healthier now too. So I really question the governments new-found forward looking M.O.

[jp1284]

Does anybody have an update on whether or not the decrease has been confirmed/likely to happen?

[MAKOTOZ]

I'm quite shocked by the sudden reduction in class size when we are so close to the end of this cycle. Class size was one of the most crutial factors for us applicants to consider when deciding which school to apply. We all put so much time and effort into this application expecting a certain success rate, not to mention the financial cost associated with travelling to the interview. I really hope that U of C could find a better solution to the funding issue rather than depriving 50 qualified applicants of their chance of admission. Personally, I rather have a sigificant increase in tuition than not getting into the school.

[Jamer]

Guys, I know we're all stressed by this, but let's take out the offensive language in the posts. Jochi is just providing another look on the matter, and as far as I'm concerned, she's bang out. I want to be in medical school, there's no question about it, but small classes have numerous advantages. It's just too bad it would be at the expense of another qualified applicant

 

Did we really perform that poorly, Jochi? As far as I'm concerned, that was the hardest/weirdest set of questions I had in 6 interviews. It really threw me off and I tried preparing really hard this year...I'm sure I wasn't alone

[Corsci]

 

Did we really perform that poorly, Jochi? As far as I'm concerned, that was the hardest/weirdest set of questions I had in 6 interviews. It really threw me off and I tried preparing really hard this year...I'm sure I wasn't alone

 

Tougher than U of C that's for sure.

[sv3]

Tougher than U of C that's for sure.

 

really?

 

i found i had prepared for like 4 of the questions before hand. Maybe I was lucky but i found the questions easier than UC. If for nothing else, at least the majority of them were way shorter. I think I only found one long at UA, and practically found them all long at UC.

 

Then again..Cal was my first MMI ever so perhaps that explains the soreness.....

[yeeha]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a test to see how quickly and violently people will react to a rumor... I will remain calm, or try to at least, until I know it is official.

 

I am curious to know more about Jochi's comment that this cycle performed poorly. Was this comment in regards to U of A's interview or U of C's?

[sv3]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a test to see how quickly and violently people will react to a rumor... I will remain calm, or try to at least, until I know it is official.

 

I am curious to know more about Jochi's comment that this cycle performed poorly. Was this comment in regards to U of A's interview or U of C's?

 

don't think you need a test to know the answer to that question......

[sparkles3288]

I think it's fun and easy for someone like Jochi already in med school to make these statements.

 

I'd like to see someone in her shoes, waiting to get in, making the same comments.

 

Try to have some empathy.

[skp1187]

I think it's fun and easy for someone like Jochi already in med school to make these statements.

 

I'd like to see someone in her shoes, waiting to get in, making the same comments.

 

Try to have some empathy.

 

I agree too. What Jochi said is 100% true but why post it when people are scared or sad or very suprised about the possibility of a reduced class size.

 

I'm also sure that u knew your comments were going to create some anger so save those comments for a more appropriate time

[krgregg]

I have to say that a decrease in size is good on several levels.

 

1) our clerkship is going to be a disaster. People from the class of 150 were complaining about lack of preceptors, etc, imagine how our clerkship will be for a class of 189 - actually, more than that, since at least 1 person from 2012 will be going into clerkship with us, and who knows if there's going to be more. There are already various approaches being discussed in an effort to accomodate our gigantic class in 3rd and 4th year, the ones I know include expanding ICC (although I don't know how this is going to pan out with the funding issues) and changing the entire set-up of the surgery rotation.

 

2) U of A interviewed very few people considering the number of seats. We interviewed 480 people for a class of 188. If you consider the OOP wailist movement, I would venture to say that IP acceptance rate could go into the 80-90%s. Combined with some rumours I've heard about the performance of this year's interviewees, it might result in a lower caliber of students in c/o 2014.

 

3) We already have a shortage of instructors in 1st and 2nd year. People have up to 6 people in their clinical skills groups! I have 5 in mine and it definitely feels like it's 1 person too many as far as the learning experience goes (don't get me wrong, I <3 my clinical skills group). Our anatomy groups are 8 people per cadaver, and I think it would be much better with 6 people. Our DL is often taught by non-clinicians and not even scientists. I currently have a librarian as my DL facilitator, and while he's a lovely fellow, I miss the Stanford-trained cardiologist who taught my Cardio DL and would actually explain things that we were not 100% clear on.

 

A. i agree 100% with Jochi. Class sizes 5 years ago were <100 and the small group and clerkship experience was much much better. I have friends that finished from 2006-2008 and are astounded by the number of students that we have. Some have come back as residents and taught us and can't believe how big the groups are now. it dilutes the learning. clerkship is also ridiculous in terms of students. there were 12 (yes 12) learners on a sub-specialty service here last week. for two operating rooms. that is 6 people PER ROOM. probably 3-4 more than would actually be reasonably acceptable for good teaching.

 

there are also not the residency spots available yet for the increased class sizes.

 

B. it costs damn near a MILLION dollars to train a physician in Canada. if you're serious about "paying extra for it" and can't get in here - go to the US/Australia/The UK. you can match to Canada still and put your money where your mouth is. As an IP student in Alberta, your odds are better than anywhere else in Canada. Complaining about decreases as a result of funding cuts by the government does come off as whiny and entitled (which is already a huge problem IN med school...we don't need more of it).

 

If you're seriously worried, rather than complaining on the internet, why don't you go out and do something to make sure you're competitive. Like study, or volunteer, or save burning african children from AIDS or something.

[sv3]

A. i agree 100% with Jochi. Class sizes 5 years ago were <100 and the small group and clerkship experience was much much better. I have friends that finished from 2006-2008 and are astounded by the number of students that we have. Some have come back as residents and taught us and can't believe how big the groups are now. it dilutes the learning. clerkship is also ridiculous in terms of students. there were 12 (yes 12) learners on a sub-specialty service here last week. for two operating rooms. that is 6 people PER ROOM. probably 3-4 more than would actually be reasonably acceptable for good teaching.

 

there are also not the residency spots available yet for the increased class sizes.

 

B. it costs damn near a MILLION dollars to train a physician in Canada. if you're serious about "paying extra for it" and can't get in here - go to the US/Australia/The UK. you can match to Canada still and put your money where your mouth is. As an IP student in Alberta, your odds are better than anywhere else in Canada. Complaining about decreases as a result of funding cuts by the government does come off as whiny and entitled (which is already a huge problem IN med school...we don't need more of it).

 

If you're seriously worried, rather than complaining on the internet, why don't you go out and do something to make sure you're competitive. Like study, or volunteer, or save burning african children from AIDS or something.

 

You are an idiot and offensive. First of all, referencing "burning african children" is insensitive and immature - especially coming from someone in medical school. It's a alot easier on that side of the fence isn't it? Looks like whiny and entitled students aren't the only problem in medical school - you should add arrogant and condescending to the list while you're at it.

 

Are your friends also astounded by any other problems? Like perhaps a lack of doctors in Canada? These friends of yours an authority on the matter?

 

And if medschool sucks so much for you, drop out instead of being all whiny about it. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

[asem26]

Those already in med school should understand how stressful it is for us still waiting to get in. It wasn't too long ago since you were in our very same shoes. The slightest of things would add to all of our worries; ffs I was worried that my verifiers would be on march break when the university called: I know that sounds paranoid and pathetic to a lot of you, but so many of us have put their lives into this (probably all of us). People upset by this announcement (or rumor or whatever) are simply reacting in the most human and logical way. It should be understandable. Obviously smaller class sizes are a better deal for those IN the classes, but for us, its like not in my backyard, or at least, not this year when I want to get in. I guess what I'm trying to say is that instead of people on here attacking each other, I think we should just be supportive of each other with, at the very very least, positive words of encouragement.

 

So with all sincerity, I wish all of you the best of luck at UofC and any other school you may have applied to. To those still interviewing this weekend, don't do what I just did and forget about UofC for a while lol. At the end of the day, if you have worked hard enough, you will get in and you will be the Dr you've always dreamed of being.

 

Be positive!

[collins]

A. i agree 100% with Jochi. Class sizes 5 years ago were <100 and the small group and clerkship experience was much much better. I have friends that finished from 2006-2008 and are astounded by the number of students that we have. Some have come back as residents and taught us and can't believe how big the groups are now. it dilutes the learning. clerkship is also ridiculous in terms of students. there were 12 (yes 12) learners on a sub-specialty service here last week. for two operating rooms. that is 6 people PER ROOM. probably 3-4 more than would actually be reasonably acceptable for good teaching.

 

there are also not the residency spots available yet for the increased class sizes.

 

B. it costs damn near a MILLION dollars to train a physician in Canada. if you're serious about "paying extra for it" and can't get in here - go to the US/Australia/The UK. you can match to Canada still and put your money where your mouth is. As an IP student in Alberta, your odds are better than anywhere else in Canada. Complaining about decreases as a result of funding cuts by the government does come off as whiny and entitled (which is already a huge problem IN med school...we don't need more of it).

 

If you're seriously worried, rather than complaining on the internet, why don't you go out and do something to make sure you're competitive. Like study, or volunteer, or save burning african children from AIDS or something.

 

In many respects I am speechless at this response and others that are similar. What kind of reasoning would lead someone to think that the best response to people worried about seats being cut is to tell them to shut up because there are bigger, more important problems?

 

Of course there are problems everywhere in the delivery of health care. Thank you for stating the obvious. I feel so much better knowing that sacrificing potentially 100 seats in Alberta med schools will take the burden off students that were "truly" competitive/were lucky that the quota last year was generous. Anyone who got off a waitlist last year would not get in this year, but hey, what do you care, your on to bigger better things. Best of luck with the oversized groups.

 

Idea: raise med problems in the med forum, us nobodies in the premed forums get dizzy when you raise such complicated, over-our-head issues, in such sensitive and considerate ways.

[Icebox]

This is a really difficult situation and I feel for all of you. I still remember what it was like being on a waitlist, and it was horrible.

 

If it's any consolation, I genuinely believe that the answer for those of you that have interviewed is that it's not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when'. If you were able to get to the interview stage, you're qualified on paper. Interviewing is a skill that some people innately have, and others develop it over time. You WILL get in if you persist, but time is the only limiting factor.

 

I understand that time does matter for some, and I hope things can work out for the best in that regard and you are able to persist.. not much else I can say on that end. But if you've gotten this far, then the concept of being a physician is very, very realistic and is likely to happen, even if seats are being cut. Additionally, what others are saying is true, and you will also win out by getting more opportunities & better quality during your schooling.

[jp1284]

This is a really difficult situation and I feel for all of you. I still remember what it was like being on a waitlist, and it was horrible.

 

If it's any consolation, I genuinely believe that the answer for those of you that have interviewed is that it's not a matter of 'if', but a matter of 'when'. If you were able to get to the interview stage, you're qualified on paper. Interviewing is a skill that some people innately have, and others develop it over time. You WILL get in if you persist, but time is the only limiting factor.

 

I understand that time does matter for some, and I hope things can work out for the best in that regard and you are able to persist.. not much else I can say on that end. But if you've gotten this far, then the concept of being a physician is very, very realistic and is likely to happen, even if seats are being cut. Additionally, what others are saying is true, and you will also win out by getting more opportunities & better quality during your schooling.

 

Now this is a great mmi answer, presenting both points of view!

[boodog]

hi guys, even though this will not end the speculation, it doesn't so much matter how many students the deans at either the U of C or the U of A say they will be admitting or how many they would like to admit. it is not their decision, in fact it is the government of alberta's. If the government says to admit 188, the U of A will damn well admit 188. If they say 135, the number that i've heard, they'll be admitting 135.

 

For the current applicants, I'd suggest writing or better yet calling your MLA to find out what is being discussed by the ministry of advanced education.

 

I can appreciate that this decision absolutely sucks, but quite frankly 188 is way too big a class size. Couple this with the fact that for the class of 188 people, much of the "extra" seats that were added to this class will result in extra residency positions in family medicine ONLY, since this is the major interest of the government. Getting into specialties of choice will become even harder year by year, as the government selectively changes the allocation of residency positions.

 

I wish you all the best of luck.

[JK10]

While I am not a frequent poster to this forum, I have been an avid reader and feel compelled to share something at this point. As an (OOP) interviewee this year, this situation is definitely not ideal considering that we have all invested a great amount of effort and time into preparing our applications and interviews. I can at least say for myself (and probably others) that this news is disappointing, and its timing, no doubt, puts added pressure and anxiety on us as we wait to hear back.

 

Having said this, I think some of the posts aren't necessarily fostering positive discussion. The number of censored expletives and comments about stupidity and idiocy will not change the government budget cuts or sway UofC's final determination. Some of the insights from the current UofC/UofA class may not be what we applicants want to hear...their comments may seem like salt on open wounds. But, as we have often asked them for application and interview advice, I don't think it's productive to slam them when they say something that we just don't want to hear (they bring up some very valid points).

 

There will always be conflicts of opinion while working and learning in medicine, and I'm sure we'll all get there sometime (if not really soon)... let's hope we approach real conflict differently than we do on this forum! Best of luck everyone.. fingers crossed for us all, regardless of seats!

[sv3]

hi guys, even though this will not end the speculation, it doesn't so much matter how many students the deans at either the U of C or the U of A say they will be admitting or how many they would like to admit. it is not their decision, in fact it is the government of alberta's. If the government says to admit 188, the U of A will damn well admit 188. If they say 135, the number that i've heard, they'll be admitting 135.

 

For the current applicants, I'd suggest writing or better yet calling your MLA to find out what is being discussed by the ministry of advanced education.

 

I can appreciate that this decision absolutely sucks, but quite frankly 188 is way too big a class size. Couple this with the fact that for the class of 188 people, much of the "extra" seats that were added to this class will result in extra residency positions in family medicine ONLY, since this is the major interest of the government. Getting into specialties of choice will become even harder year by year, as the government selectively changes the allocation of residency positions.

 

I wish you all the best of luck.

 

no arguement - i know the government runs the show. i think the problem i have with people coming on here and stating all the negatives about a large class size is that none of you rejected your acceptance to a large class. See my point? Obviously there are negatives to it, but considering no one back then rejected their seats, and then they come on here and talk about how bad a small class is, I find that very hypocritical. I'm sure some things suck for you but would they be as bad as being rejected?

 

Of course, some people have more tact than others and can do it in a better way.

[Jochi1543]

You are an idiot and offensive.

 

Sv3, you've been extremely rude to quite a few people on this forum on multiple occasions. It's also kind of silly to insult current students from schools you are dying to get into. It won't get you any extra points with anyone there. I would think hard about how you present yourself to your future peers. The idea of maintaining civil relationships with those who will be selecting you for ECs, research, admission to medical school, planning your orientation week, helping you out with your TOSCEs, teaching you on the wards, etc, should be pretty clear.

 

It reminds me of one thing the U of A admissions dean mentioned back in the fall - you can tell who will make a good physician by how they treat the secretaries. Most people know better than to insult the deans and the faculty, but it's when they interact with the support staff and the other students that their true nature comes out.

[sv3]

Sv3, you've been extremely rude to quite a few people on this forum on multiple occasions. It's also kind of silly to insult current students from schools you are dying to get into. It won't get you any extra points with anyone there. I would think hard about how you present yourself to your future peers. The idea of maintaining civil relationships with those who will be selecting you for ECs, research, admission to medical school, planning your orientation week, helping you out with your TOSCEs, teaching you on the wards, etc, should be pretty clear.

 

It reminds me of one thing the U of A admissions dean mentioned back in the fall - you can tell who will make a good physician by how they treat the secretaries. Most people know better than to insult the deans and the faculty, but it's when they interact with the support staff and the other students that their true nature comes out.

 

1. If you are going to quote me, be fair and quote the message I was responding to as well (or does that not suit your purpose?). And actually I've only been rude to you, and don't think you haven't repaid it.

 

2. I will respect whomever I choose, and do not plan to suck up to anyone - if that is what you are implying. Just b/c i want to get into a school does not mean I would let a current student there walk all over me. You seem to like this idea of a totem pole but sorry, I won't be the person you spit on.

 

3. Speaking of civil relationships, do you think your posts help enforce that? Or do you not have to care about forming good relationships with incoming students since we will be "below" you? I'm pretty sure I wasn't alone in rebuking your post. I don't mince words b/c I don't play the game. I could care less if I'm on your good side. Really, who are you anyway? A medical school student? That's great. Good for you. But I don't beleive professions define people so enjoy having someone else suck up to you. I know plenty of med students and get along fine with them because I respect them. I won't respect you just because you are a medical student, CEO, or whatever. Status may be something you cherish but I'm not that big on it, sorry.

 

4. I really don't need your advice on what to think hard about. I do just fine on my own, thanks. Keep your extra points.

[RadioStar]

I'm super sad to hear they're cutting the class size so drastically, and it makes me even more sad to come here and listen to everyone cut each other down - albeit, slightly entertaining.

 

I does seem rather frustrating that our chances of getting into the program dropped to say 1/5th but on the other hand, most of us don't know our pre-interview scores so it's also hard to complain about the large number of people interviewed... any of us could have been lower on the list and lucky to get an interview this year.

 

On a brighter note : tomorrow marks less than 50 days until we find out I'll be waiting with bated breath with you! Best of luck, and to the lucky ~135 people, enjoy your small intimate class size and better hope the government quits b*tching about the doctor shortage!

[medguyz]

A. i agree 100% with Jochi. Class sizes 5 years ago were <100 and the small group and clerkship experience was much much better. I have friends that finished from 2006-2008 and are astounded by the number of students that we have. Some have come back as residents and taught us and can't believe how big the groups are now. it dilutes the learning. clerkship is also ridiculous in terms of students. there were 12 (yes 12) learners on a sub-specialty service here last week. for two operating rooms. that is 6 people PER ROOM. probably 3-4 more than would actually be reasonably acceptable for good teaching.

 

there are also not the residency spots available yet for the increased class sizes.

 

B. it costs damn near a MILLION dollars to train a physician in Canada. if you're serious about "paying extra for it" and can't get in here - go to the US/Australia/The UK. you can match to Canada still and put your money where your mouth is. As an IP student in Alberta, your odds are better than anywhere else in Canada. Complaining about decreases as a result of funding cuts by the government does come off as whiny and entitled (which is already a huge problem IN med school...we don't need more of it).

 

If you're seriously worried, rather than complaining on the internet, why don't you go out and do something to make sure you're competitive. Like study, or volunteer, or save burning african children from AIDS or something.

 

Hello, I am a medical student at the uofa who doesn't usually post on forums like this, but the controversy got the best of me. To Krgregg and Jochi, your contributions to this forum have been amazing, however I think you are both out of line in this situation. It looks like you have both completely forgotten what it feels like to be a premed.

[Subiculum]

Hello, I am a medical student at the uofa who doesn't usually post on forums like this, but the controversy got the best of me. To Krgregg and Jochi, your contributions to this forum have been amazing, however I think you are both out of line in this situation. It looks like you have both completely forgotten what it feels like to be a premed.

 

Agreed.

 

- Subiculum

[CD8]

Thought I"d just chime in my 2 cents...

 

Although I see everyone's point of view, I hope they don't cut the number of seats at either med school, esp since I interviewed as IP.

 

That said, to those of you who think the US is easier to get into, think twice. I applied and was accepted, but it was harder than it looked. At more than 40k/year, it's no joke. If U of C wants to raise their tuition, I'd be happy to comply if it means more seats. Not because money isn't an issue, but in the end, I'll be paying my tuition to SOME school. But I know I"m lucky to have this option.

 

As an Albertan, it'd be great if they can retain their home-grown students. One of the posters said that if you're really persistent, you'll get in sometime somewhere since we're all qualified applicants. That was true for me. But seriously, forcing good quality premeds to pursue their education elsewhere isn't gonna bring more physicians to AB. Because once they leave, there's nothing stopping them from settling in a different province or country. And it's pretty apparent that we have a physician shortage, or at least a physician disparity in many AB areas.

 

That said, good luck to all of us waiting it out!!!