New OMA notice - cuts to fees

[Prince Medward]

They can try to legislate billing codes being reduced but as independent contractors to the gov't physicians are free to do what they want.

 

As I've said before, collectively physicians should come together and simply start conforming to traditional work week hours. Let's see what happens when hundred's of thousands of man-hours are lost in a system that doesn't have enough to accommodate everyone to begin with.

 

You want your reductions gov't? No problem, you got it. Now call us unprofessional because we're not willing to work the extended hours to ensure health care doesn't grind to a halt. We're doing our part to lower our financial burden on the system because, as you know, as ONLY get paid when we SEE a patient.

 

How about the gov't ask citizens to stop going to the doctor so much?

 

Reduced physician access will only empower other health professions to step up encroachment efforts. Physicians would be handing them an excellent arguement for increased scope of practice if MDs reduced their hours or otherwise failed to meet patient demand.

 

MDs are not the only game in town any more. There are eager NPs, NDs, optometrists, pharmacists, midwives and others waiting to grab the market share that MDs abandon.

 

Sorry, but scaling back physician hours will only harm the profession as a whole.

[aaronjw]

Reduced physician access will only empower other health professions to step up encroachment efforts. Physicians would be handing them an excellent arguement for increased scope of practice if MDs reduced their hours or otherwise failed to meet patient demand.

 

MDs are not the only game in town any more. There are eager NPs, NDs, optometrists, pharmacists, midwives and others waiting to grab the market share that MDs abandon.

 

Sorry, but scaling back physician hours will only harm the profession as a whole.

 

I say let them. If MDs honestly feel as though NP and the like can't perform to the level of an MD then the increased numbers will tank this professional encorachment back to previous. Now, I can see why this wouldn't be favorable for MDs... Because they just might find for a lot of things they aren't as needed as previously thought?

[future_doc]

More politicians with higher pay and pensions and less doctors - then let's see what happens. And those politicians would go out of province for their health care.

[Robin Hood]

Reduced physician access will only empower other health professions to step up encroachment efforts. Physicians would be handing them an excellent arguement for increased scope of practice if MDs reduced their hours or otherwise failed to meet patient demand.

 

MDs are not the only game in town any more. There are eager NPs, NDs, optometrists, pharmacists, midwives and others waiting to grab the market share that MDs abandon.

 

Sorry, but scaling back physician hours will only harm the profession as a whole.

 

These guys reject science, and want to be physicians? Giving them physicians' priviledge would be dangerous, but protecting the public is not something politicians care about. If naturopaths want to be taken seriously, then they can do like USDOs, there's no doubt that evidence-based medicine has the best outcome.

As for NPs, who they think themeselves they are? Can someone remind them that they never went to medical school?

Optometry should be integrated with medicine.

[Lactic Folly]

If MDs honestly feel as though NP and the like can't perform to the level of an MD then the increased numbers will tank this professional encorachment back to previous.

 

How would you prove this? Or raise such concerns without being accused of self interest?

[Robin Hood]

How would you prove this? Or raise such concerns without being accused of self interest?

 

Soon NPs will ask to get the same priviledges as MDs, and sadly, your average Joe won't see the danger of this.

[aaronjw]

How would you prove this? Or raise such concerns without being accused of self interest?

 

Sorry, how do you mean prove it?

[lostintime]

I think people should start broadcasting how much SHE makes (as a professional liar) and the entire McGuinty government makes and see how much the public likes that. I'm sure most people would rather doctors make more than lying politicians to make more. Then we should discuss how THEY should decrease their income to help the financial troubles of the province that THEY created, instead of finding someone else to scapegoat.

 

Everyone can be "making too much" if you really look into it, but I for sure think she makes too much for lying through her teeth and acting like a real-life troll and s.ht disturber.

[Lactic Folly]

If MDs honestly feel as though NP and the like can't perform to the level of an MD then the increased numbers will tank this professional encorachment back to previous.

 

Just not sure what you meant by this.

[futureGP]

The OMA is not helping, the way they are talking, they make it seem that physicians only care about money, and don't care about patients (like when they say the wait will be longer). For the average Joe, you guys are making 300k/year (especially with the figure the Minister gave), and physicians want to neglect their patients because they will earn 250k/years (and for the average Joe, that's too much) => physicians are greedy and only care about money.

Also, it's not hard for the gov't to turn the public against you.

 

+1,

 

the OMA is definitely not helping.

It's either the media that's misrepresenting Dr. Kennedy or he is actually doing a bad job.

 

It's wrong to say that the wait will be longer -- should rather focus on how dishonest Matthews is by saying that doctors earn $380 000.

[1234]

Bring on the hocus pocus medicine, where dilution = more effect. Makes sense no?

[benhc911]

+1,

 

the OMA is definitely not helping.

It's either the media that's misrepresenting Dr. Kennedy or he is actually doing a bad job.

 

It's wrong to say that the wait will be longer -- should rather focus on how dishonest Matthews is by saying that doctors earn $380 000.

 

yah... I'd really like to know how that number was put together... even IF that number was accurate there is no consideration given to the high operating costs of being an MD, paying for secretary, cleaning staff, office space, equipment, etc etc... furthermore, the average Joe doesn't realize what its like to be self employed when it comes to taxes, and that SIGNIFICANTLY less than that is take home pay... furthermore, the cost of education, professional fees, and the fact that a lot of doctors work significantly more hours than the average joe...

 

its just so out of context that its sad... politics encourage flawed arguments like these... if you can't respond to the facts, avoid them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that fees need to be re-evaluated for certain procedures that are no longer that involved (cataracts come to mind), but locking in all other fees? Furthermore that the want to cap total spending despite a need for more doctors?... sigh

[benhc911]

How about the gov't ask citizens to stop going to the doctor so much?

 

or make it so we can/should/have to refuse people coming to the ER with non EMERGENCY concerns... all the saved money could easily fund the necessary walk in clinics etc to divert the burden...

[benhc911]

Bring on the hocus pocus medicine, where dilution = more effect. Makes sense no?

 

ugh... my bad for the triple post... but

 

 

lols

[lostintime]

So I guess Ms. Slasher has accomplished her goal? I mean this whole thing was pointless to begin with, what did the OMA think, that the public was going to sympathize with doctors? Nooooope. And obviously Ms. Slasher and Mr. McLiar are gonna do whatever their little heart desires because it's not like doctors can really go on strike or anything.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1174205--deb-matthews-slashes-fees-for-ohip-services-to-save-338-million?bn=1

 

I can definitely see a bunch of ophtho's and radiologists leaving Ontario prettttty fast. Along with a bunch of other people. I would be interested to see a complete list of fee service cuts though.

[lostintime]

Oh and I love how Ms. Slasher thinks she knows exactly what services should be cut to " make room for home care". Sure, just let home care take care of all their needs while they wait in line forever to actually see a qualified physician.

 

Does Ms. Slasher have any basic medical knowledge? Maybe she should take a basic level high school biology quiz to actually see if she has any knowledge of how the human body works before they let her decide which health services people are less worthy of? Oh right, it doesn't matter about physiology and evidence-based medicine. Who cares? Just look at which numbers look high, and slash slash slash!

[ldnk]

So I guess Ms. Slasher has accomplished her goal? I mean this whole thing was pointless to begin with, what did the OMA think, that the public was going to sympathize with doctors? Nooooope. And obviously Ms. Slasher and Mr. McLiar are gonna do whatever their little heart desires because it's not like doctors can really go on strike or anything.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1174205--deb-matthews-slashes-fees-for-ohip-services-to-save-338-million?bn=1

 

I can definitely see a bunch of ophtho's and radiologists leaving Ontario prettttty fast. Along with a bunch of other people. I would be interested to see a complete list of fee service cuts though.

 

The whole thing about this is, what fee schedules were cut (at least the ones that were listed) are fairly reasonable options. Cataract surgeries ARE too expensive for what the procedure is anymore. It's not the same job that it used to be, so paying a little less for it is a reasonable request.

 

The OMA however, was offering those concessions and Matthews used it as another opportunity to call "US" (I quote it simply because I'm certainly not billing anything as a 2nd year student) liars and unfair negotiators.

[apache]

read my posts, i could explain to you 30 different nutritional interventions used in psychiatry, target cells, protein they bind too, polymorphism and feedback control, and how to garget that, a lot of nutrients are just drugs that can't be patented. wanna learn about dismutase oxidase, peroxisomes, catecholamine oxidative, methyl transferase and the methyl donor s-adeonysyl methionine, which you give to parkinsons patients after extended treatment because without comt inhibitors the stuff's done, there's feedback regulation on tyrosine kinase as well as oxidative damage and ph disturbances in the mitochondria, releasing iron, which binds the bi functional mapk, rendering it inactive and unable to donate to tyrosine kinase, even if it could, but you have to use nitrogen scavenging antioxidants like melatonin which removes the dinitriteoxidase which binds to tyrosine kinase, rendering it inactive… and meaning taking adhd medication does more harm than good, if ur not sharp or have someone who is… there's some naturopathic biochemistry, i can also talk about the u shaped inhibitory curve of the magnesium that binds to nmda, which prevents downstream calmodulin release, achich activates protein kinase c… more feedback… sure sounds pseudoscientific, just like listening to a rage against the machine song and thinking it's bull**** because it has to many details, lol

 

These guys reject science, and want to be physicians? Giving them physicians' priviledge would be dangerous, but protecting the public is not something politicians care about. If naturopaths want to be taken seriously, then they can do like USDOs, there's no doubt that evidence-based medicine has the best outcome.

As for NPs, who they think themeselves they are? Can someone remind them that they never went to medical school?

Optometry should be integrated with medicine.

[ldnk]

or make it so we can/should/have to refuse people coming to the ER with non EMERGENCY concerns... all the saved money could easily fund the necessary walk in clinics etc to divert the burden...

 

 

I always felt that a fee for improper visits would be a great thing. The emergency department isn't your family clinic. If you have a family doctor, book an appointment, and if you don't, go to a walk-in clinic. If you go to Emerg for something stupid, you should have to pay the bill (or a fee). It would be amazing how much faster the wait times would be.

 

Actually I would love to see the statistics on what the wait time for true emergency patients is, instead of the person who comes because they stubbed their toe and then proceeds to sit in the waiting room for 3 hours because they had no reason to be there.

[NLengr]

Actually in NL, the few times the physicians went up against the government, public opinion went solidly pro-physician.

 

Now the NLMA did a better job than the OMA all those times, and I would venture to say the attitudes around physicians are different in NL vs. Ontario.

 

The Ontario government is incredibly bad at this time however. Massive deficit, yet continued huge amounts of discretionary spending.

[apache]

i really don't get why private industry hasn't responded to this yet… moo, get some of your buddies to open evening walk in clinics, i'm sure if there are er doc's who enjoy sleeping in the day there are minimally competent gp's who will too, so we overpay that guy less than the night shift er doc, plus any extra investigations he requests… just in case… after all, why not protect your ass, maybe it is the zebra, but your bud at diagnostics can bill for it. i imagine the desperation factor would bring in people coming in for more mindless **** than usual, which means 1 minute refill on a week of your meds till you see your fam doc… 37 bucks, bam, plus no admin duties, you could prob even pump some rage against the machine up with the nite crowd in the right neighbourhoods, lol. take 30 percent of their billings and open an adjacent starbucks and you've got a mil a year right there… now all ya needs some start up capital

 

I always felt that a fee for improper visits would be a great thing. The emergency department isn't your family clinic. If you have a family doctor, book an appointment, and if you don't, go to a walk-in clinic. If you go to Emerg for something stupid, you should have to pay the bill (or a fee). It would be amazing how much faster the wait times would be.

 

Actually I would love to see the statistics on what the wait time for true emergency patients is, instead of the person who comes because they stubbed their toe and then proceeds to sit in the waiting room for 3 hours because they had no reason to be there.

[aaronjw]

So I guess Ms. Slasher has accomplished her goal? I mean this whole thing was pointless to begin with, what did the OMA think, that the public was going to sympathize with doctors? Nooooope. And obviously Ms. Slasher and Mr. McLiar are gonna do whatever their little heart desires because it's not like doctors can really go on strike or anything.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1174205--deb-matthews-slashes-fees-for-ohip-services-to-save-338-million?bn=1

 

I can definitely see a bunch of ophtho's and radiologists leaving Ontario prettttty fast. Along with a bunch of other people. I would be interested to see a complete list of fee service cuts though.

 

Where are they gonna go? US isn't as attractive as it was 17 years ago and other provinces can't staff those they do have already.

[apache]

it's a free country, don't like infringements on your practice or pay, just leave.. if you're creative, overly knowleadgable , or an out of the box thinker, canada is so limiting… good, they can go to the states, and do public work, except optho's are sometimes tied to the economy… i'd love to do comprehensive psych, i can't do that **** here, developing an exercise plan doesn't look billable, even though it's peer reviewed, how bout a brain diet for optimal function, doing an md/phd so u can incorporate learning assessments and targeted private interventions for adults and kids… learn some mandarin for the cep's of the future who have anxiety about giving speeches in mandarin, be what your customer wants to be… i'm guessing behavioural intervention for high function add people who run huge companies, plus med and nutrition, exercise management, psychoeducation… since they're self interested… means a hefty bill.. since your help means a hefty bonus for them… plus i hear cali is nicer than kingston

 

So I guess Ms. Slasher has accomplished her goal? I mean this whole thing was pointless to begin with, what did the OMA think, that the public was going to sympathize with doctors? Nooooope. And obviously Ms. Slasher and Mr. McLiar are gonna do whatever their little heart desires because it's not like doctors can really go on strike or anything.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1174205--deb-matthews-slashes-fees-for-ohip-services-to-save-338-million?bn=1

 

I can definitely see a bunch of ophtho's and radiologists leaving Ontario prettttty fast. Along with a bunch of other people. I would be interested to see a complete list of fee service cuts though.

[lostintime]

The whole thing about this is, what fee schedules were cut (at least the ones that were listed) are fairly reasonable options. Cataract surgeries ARE too expensive for what the procedure is anymore. It's not the same job that it used to be, so paying a little less for it is a reasonable request.

 

The OMA however, was offering those concessions and Matthews used it as another opportunity to call "US" (I quote it simply because I'm certainly not billing anything as a 2nd year student) liars and unfair negotiators.

 

Yeah I agree, those 2 don't look bad, but I was reading on another newspaper about cutting MRI's for chronic back pain, and all this other jazz. I'll post it if I can find it. That's why I would like a full list, because I don't think the OMA would be up in arms if it was JUST ophtho and rads (no offense). I think I read they are also getting rid of $30 000 per year for GP's for chronic care of patients or something like that.

[lostintime]

it's a free country, don't like infringements on your practice or pay, just leave.. if you're creative, overly knowleadgable , or an out of the box thinker, canada is so limiting… good, they can go to the states, and do public work, except optho's are sometimes tied to the economy… i'd love to do comprehensive psych, i can't do that **** here, developing an exercise plan doesn't look billable, even though it's peer reviewed, how bout a brain diet for optimal function, doing an md/phd so u can incorporate learning assessments and targeted private interventions for adults and kids… learn some mandarin for the cep's of the future who have anxiety about giving speeches in mandarin, be what your customer wants to be… i'm guessing behavioural intervention for high function add people who run huge companies, plus med and nutrition, exercise management, psychoeducation… since they're self interested… means a hefty bill.. since your help means a hefty bonus for them… plus i hear cali is nicer than kingston

 

Oh yeah, I can see doctors being creative, rushing through appointments to actually make a living (blah blah *political correctedness* blah blah), or simply moving. The people who suffer are the patients of Ontario. But too bad no one really cares enough about them, well doctors more so than Deb Matthews, but doctors can only take so much b.s.