Is 38 Too Late ?

[shematoma]

I would like to hear from the OP - was the bolded the case 10 years ago? Or is this a recent situation, as you alluded to earlier by saying this has been an ongoing conversation for the "last 4 years". I'm wondering if some of the posters (myself included) may be reading too much into your situation.   I don't think its fair to assume the wife is being completely unreasonable haha, since we only have 1 side of the story.

 

It is concerning that the OP doesn't think/know their marriage will last in 10 years - i mean, there is nothing wrong with wanting out of a marriage that isn't working - but i hope you're seeking the help you need to help address things from a 360 perspective.

 

I would encourage you and your wife need to see a counsellor and really have an honest conversation, and put it all on the table. It could really help both of you achieve a clearer perspective, without having an uncomfortable or hostile environment and lack of guidance to navigate this path. 

 

No one here knows your personal life, so any direct advice to the original topic is going to be a bit irrelevant - you need to look at the situation from all sides .

 

I personally am a family first type of individual, but I do want to say - that if after having an honest perspective on your life from all sides, if you decide that pursuing medicine will be the better option for you, then that is your choice to make and you should be content to know it satisfies you as a person. While many of us can't fathom doing something like that, and i'm sure some may condemn you for doing so - you are an individual and everyone is entitled to make the choices they see as best fitting for their life. 

 

As another poster said, we only have one life to live - and there's never going to be one right way to live it. 

 

Sorry, I meant to quote OP's other post, in which he says:

 

"With respect to some of the questions...I wanted to go into med after I finished Pharm school, but my wife was unsupportive of that decision, so our compromise at the time was PharmD which was 2 years on top of my UG degree. As part of my PhamD I received training by physicians that would be very similar to what a medical resident would have. I went to radiology rounds, physical assessment rounds, etc. Over the 2 years I realized that, while Pharm was interesting, I was more interested in procedures, reading ekg's,CT's, and solving the puzzle of why people are ill, more than what to treat them with. I also really want to take responsibility for the patient.... While I have and do work with some amazing docs that truly value what I bring to the table there are a portion who dismiss me because "i'm just a pharmacist"...... This is something that I have a very hard time with because even if I think a patient is being mismanaged, I really have no power to stop or change anything....."

 

Thus in 2006, when he graduated from PharmD, his wife discouraged him from pursuing MD.

[Swanky]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

So I graduated from Pharmacy (BscPharm) in 2006. I moved to BC with my wife (no children) and worked in retail until 2010. During that entire time I was miserable. I had worked so hard and done well in Pharm, and felt like my skills were wasted. In 2009 finally couldn't do it anymore, I told my wife (pre-children) that I wanted to go back and do medicine. She said no, and it was a huge issue for quite a few months. I knew I couldn't stay in community, so I started looking at other avenues. I started PharmD in 2010 as a compromise-my wife refused(with our newborn) to go with me to Toronto. I spend 2 years doing my PharmD without my family. I graduated from PharmD and moved back to the same town I currently live in.

 

A lot of comments have been geared towards the 10 year uncertainty... If I am going to be completely honest, things are not great at them moment. I am a very career driven person, she is the complete opposite. She wants to work to live, I live to work. I volunteer a lot of my time to my profession, and she is un-supportive of this. I want to be involved and challenged, therefore I seek out opportunities that stimulate me, I hear about it. To be honest it's not only about med, I feel unsupported in general. That's why I made that comment. 

 

I would likely apply to calgary as my first choice (3 years) and do internal or FMR+1. I'm actually 36 right now so I took into account the time it would take to write MCAT and apply etc.

 

My kids are pretty young. One is 5 the other is 2. 

 

I'm so torn......

[indefatigable]

Hi Swanky,

 

The decision definitely doesn't have to be made today. Your profile for calgary sounds like a match and you only have to write the mcat to give yourself a great chance at an interview and admittance. I feel with your background and work ethic you could do this perhaps working reduced hours.

 

In the meantime, as Gohan suggested, seeing someone as a couple regarding your spousal relationship might be really helpful. It sounds like you care deeply for your children but that there are a number of long standing issues regarding medical and career ambitions in your relationship. I wish you the best of luck.

[shematoma]

Hi Swanky,

 

The decision definitely doesn't have to be made today. Your profile for calgary sounds like a match and you only have to write the mcat to give yourself a great chance at an interview and admittance. I feel with your background and work ethic you could do this perhaps working reduced hours.

 

In the meantime, as Gohan suggested, seeing someone as a couple regarding your spousal relationship might be really helpful. It sounds like you care deeply for your children but that there are a number of long standing issues regarding medical and career ambitions in your relationship. I wish you the best of luck.

 

 

The problem is, and I speak from firsthand experience, that when you're afflicted with itch to go down the MD route, it's in the back of your mind all the time. In the morning when you shower, at night when you're trying to sleep. And then you're constantly wondering, should I be signing up for courses this fall, getting started on MCAT prep, registering for the September MCAT so I can apply this cycle, etc. etc. Meanwhile, I am not getting younger, and since medical school starts only once a year, even small delays in getting certain balls rolling could mean medical school is kicked back another year and every cohort is only getting more competitive. It's hard to get on with life. At least that was my experience. I don't envy anyone in my or OP's shoes.

[ralk]

The problem is, and I speak from firsthand experience, that when you're afflicted with itch to go down the MD route, it's in the back of your mind all the time. In the morning when you shower, at night when you're trying to sleep. And then you're constantly wondering, should I be signing up for courses this fall, getting started on MCAT prep, registering for the September MCAT so I can apply this cycle, etc. etc. Meanwhile, I am not getting younger, and since medical school starts only once a year, even small delays in getting certain balls rolling could mean medical school is kicked back another year and every cohort is only getting more competitive. It's hard to get on with life. At least that was my experience. I don't envy anyone in my or OP's shoes.

 

I would never say don't scratch that itch - it'd be pretty hypocritical of me, since I scratched it myself - but I would urge caution. The trouble with scratching an itch is that it provides temporary relief, but rarely a long-term solution. You scratch an itch, it goes away for a while, then it comes back. So you scratch it again. And again. And again. At the end, you don't often end up with no itch - rather, you scratch through skin and now have an itch with a lot of cuts overtop of it.

 

Ultimately, that itch to get into medical school isn't an itch to be a physician, it's an itch to do more (either quantity-wise or quality-wise) than you currently do. That doesn't stop with an admission to medical school. Instead of a drive to get into medical school, it becomes a drive to study more, get involved in the school or community more, do more research, or push for that more competitive residency program. I had that itch to become a physician and now I spend on average almost 40 hours a week on clubs, research, and volunteer work because simply being in medical school wasn't enough. Again, I can't say it's wrong to go down this path, to scratch away, because I did and I'm relatively happy with my decisions. But the itch doesn't go away. In the morning when I shower and at night when I'm trying to sleep, there's still that thought in the back of my head - could I be doing more?

 

Part of the reason I can spend so much time doing extra stuff is because I have a supportive partner. More importantly, the fact that she is so supportive makes it easier to ignore that thought in the back of my head, because I know doing more for my career can mean doing less for my partner - she's sacrificed for my career's sake, so my career can take a hit for her sake. On this point, I have to fully endorse the recommendations of other posters - not having a supportive partner is the real challenge to your situation and thus deserves the most attention. It's also something that needs to be addressed regardless of which path you take. Feeling unsupported will be a problem whether you pursue medical school or not. There are many ways to deal with these concerns - couples counselling is a good option - but the crux will be opening the lines of communication and hearing each other out. She needs to understand that you don't feel supported in your aspirations and it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't feel fully supported in her goals either. For a marriage to continue in a functional capacity, those sorts of conflicts need to be reconciled. When approaching how to deal with your current dilemma, your marriage is where I'd start.

[aaronjw]

I can say this as someone who is married and child en route and who is 38: you should have bucked up and got the divorce 10 years ago.

 

Relationships are a two-way street but it seems she has been absolutely uncompromising at every turn now you are going to be pitted against your children.

 

Sure hope she has some type of career or you are doubly screwed.

[Swanky]

Shematoma, you hit the nail on the head perfectly. That itch is always there. 

 

I do think that counselling it the first place we should start. May bring us to a point where she either is okay with me going, or I can let it go. 

[indefatigable]

I understand your desire to fully commit to a MD path, and I'm glad to hear that you are moving initially towards counselling.

 

At this point there is not yet a dichotomy between medicine and marriage, as the acceptance is not yet in hand.

 

The pharmD is a really strong background and the mcat requirements for calgary and ubc are not extremely high, which means that doing well may be less work than you might think. This seems to be the only concrete step needed to get a strong application out.

 

I know it seems like there is no choice, but I feel you will be able to sort this out.

[Med_new]

Your age definitely isn't an issue. People in their 40s and even their 50s have been admitted into medical school. I'm older than you and will be applying for a third time.

 

Dang! I am 33, gunning for med school .. I thought I was old!

[Birdy]

I think that before you do anything with this further, you and your wife need to pursue counselling with a view to sorting this out. Because clearly there are issues that will need a neutral third party to help sort out. You two may prove to have fundamentally incompatible desires in life, and you'll need guidance - professional guidance - in figuring out if that is the case and, if so, what to do about it. I have a feeling that this desire may be exerting itself more strongly as a symptom of underlying tensions, not necessarily just because it is something you've always wanted to do.

 

You certainly aren't too old, so that's not a worry. I think people seem to assume, unfairly, that kids are less able to cope with a parent having a few years of intensive work than is actually the case. Kids are resilient.

 

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to pursue.

[makingfetchhappen]

Mirroring what other people above are saying about seeing a counselor to discuss these issues. There seems to be a lot to get into regarding give and take and whether you two have the same goals and values. 

One thing I would add, as someone who helps guide people through non-marital disputes, is that you should invest some time in finding the right counselor. 

I have had crappy mediators for law suits a couple times before. They actually do not help and only make things worse sometimes. On the other hand, I have had very good mediators. They sometimes have had people who absolutely despise each other reaching agreements and creative compromises that one might have never expected. 

So, all that is to say is that I think there can be great things achieved by getting a neutral third party involved who is properly trained. I wish you the best in finding them.

Since you work in a hospital setting, perhaps you know someone who can help you with this. 

[JohnGrisham]

I can say this as someone who is married and child en route and who is 38: you should have bucked up and got the divorce 10 years ago.

 

Relationships are a two-way street but it seems she has been absolutely uncompromising at every turn now you are going to be pitted against your children.

 

Sure hope she has some type of career or you are doubly screwed.

I'm not sure it's fair to say the spouse "has been absolutely uncompromising at every turn", we don't know both sides of the story lol

[Friendly Magpie]

Dang! I am 33, gunning for med school .. I thought I was old!

 

You're talking about the people that are in their 40s and 50s and not me, right?   LOL

[Friendly Magpie]

I can say this as someone who is married and child en route and who is 38: you should have bucked up and got the divorce 10 years ago. Relationships are a two-way street but it seems she has been absolutely uncompromising at every turn now you are going to be pitted against your children. Sure hope she has some type of career or you are doubly screwed.

 

Congratulations! 

 

(Sorry to derail the thread a bit.)

[Mithrandir]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

So I graduated from Pharmacy (BscPharm) in 2006. I moved to BC with my wife (no children) and worked in retail until 2010. During that entire time I was miserable. I had worked so hard and done well in Pharm, and felt like my skills were wasted. In 2009 finally couldn't do it anymore, I told my wife (pre-children) that I wanted to go back and do medicine. She said no, and it was a huge issue for quite a few months. I knew I couldn't stay in community, so I started looking at other avenues. I started PharmD in 2010 as a compromise-my wife refused(with our newborn) to go with me to Toronto. I spend 2 years doing my PharmD without my family. I graduated from PharmD and moved back to the same town I currently live in.

 

A lot of comments have been geared towards the 10 year uncertainty... If I am going to be completely honest, things are not great at them moment. I am a very career driven person, she is the complete opposite. She wants to work to live, I live to work. I volunteer a lot of my time to my profession, and she is un-supportive of this. I want to be involved and challenged, therefore I seek out opportunities that stimulate me, I hear about it. To be honest it's not only about med, I feel unsupported in general. That's why I made that comment. 

 

I would likely apply to calgary as my first choice (3 years) and do internal or FMR+1. I'm actually 36 right now so I took into account the time it would take to write MCAT and apply etc.

 

My kids are pretty young. One is 5 the other is 2. 

 

I'm so torn......

Sounds like you should have bailed before the kids. I feel so bad for you being in a situation where your partner is not supportive of your dreams, however, now you have kids and bailing on them for a career (especially when you already have a great career) is something you will deeply regret. There is more to life than a job.

[goleafsgochris]

I find it weird no one has said this, but...

 

Ppl on here tend to be very conservative.  They state is as fact that your wife and kids are the most important thing in your life.  This is NOT necessarily true.  Plenty of ppl end their marriages--and if I had a wife that told me she would leave me because of my career goals, I would tell her where to stuff it...

 

Maybe Im just less family oriented, but do whatever is right for you, don't let unfair restrictions placed on you by overbearing/controlling family members dictate it

[BizMarkie]

I have no doubt you could do it, but to be the unsupportive partner issue is the biggest issue. I'm in my 30s too and will have a child by time I start (if I start) med school. My husband is both financially and emotionally supportive, and is completely willing to make sacrifices in his career to make med school and our family work. It sounds like you may have to choose between your marriage and dream of medcial school. But it gets even more complicated if you choose your marriage and end up resenting your wife from keeping you from your dream and end up losing your marriage anyway. All of the rest of your challenges can be overcome with effort and smart decisions. But this one is the real kicker. I personally could not stay married to a person who would rather me make money than be happy. I think you should try to find a way to make med school and your marriage work, but if not, I think the marriage issues may be too much even without the med school issue. Start a premed plan now so you will be ready to apply in the future if the circumstances allow.

[aaronjw]

let's be fair here in that there are real concerns a spouse has in entertaining the idea of the other pursuing something like medical school - especially at the age of 38 and with two children. Money will likely be the least of these issues.

It's not just a matter of being supportive towards one's goals. The reality is that the spouse not in medical school will shoulder a SIGNIFICANT burden of responsibilities through the duration of school itself and into residency training. It's completely fair, that at this particular stage in life, one would not want to take on that added work and effort even if the end-result may be to the overall betterment of the family long-term.

The bigger problem is that this issue was not dealt with 10 years ago. The OP knew his wife's stance. It would be akin to marrying someone who initially said they didn't want kids and thinking that time or you could change their mind then being pissed that they didn't/won't.  The potential resentment issue will be in play on both sides no matter what happens. The only way to manage that and stay married through whatever ends up happening is counseling and communication but even then it simple may not be enough.

 

For the record: the wife did not keep him from his dream. They made the decision to not pursue medical school together. She most certainly, based on available details, has been uncompromising but he had a choice in the matter, especially considering children were not involved yet, so let's not put this all on her.

 

I wish the OP luck and I truly hope you find a way, long-term, to work this out but definitely feel counseling is a must for any chance to exist.

[JohnGrisham]

@aaronjw - well said!

Definitely a super tough situation, and at the end of the day you just have to come to a decision that will make you feel the least crappy. Either way, you will likely have regrets and remorse, but you just have to find the path (with guidance, and honest communication- easier said than done) that minimizes them.

[slumdogMD]

The Op's problems probably don't just stop with med. an uncompromising spouse affects all endeavours, not just med school dreams. Say the OP found another job in a near by city that paid more, had more responsibility and made him the pharmacy head for example, it sounds like his wife would be appose to that move also. Say the OP wanted to volunteer in Africa with the Ebola problem in some health capacity, the spouse would mostly likely be unsupportive.

 

OP, please get cousilling with this woman and if her unsupportiveness continues, ditch her and be a physician/anythingyouwannabe.

[rmorelan]

let's be fair here in that there are real concerns a spouse has in entertaining the idea of the other pursuing something like medical school - especially at the age of 38 and with two children. Money will likely be the least of these issues.

 

It's not just a matter of being supportive towards one's goals. The reality is that the spouse not in medical school will shoulder a SIGNIFICANT burden of responsibilities through the duration of school itself and into residency training. It's completely fair, that at this particular stage in life, one would not want to take on that added work and effort even if the end-result may be to the overall betterment of the family long-term.

 

The bigger problem is that this issue was not dealt with 10 years ago. The OP knew his wife's stance. It would be akin to marrying someone who initially said they didn't want kids and thinking that time or you could change their mind then being pissed that they didn't/won't.  The potential resentment issue will be in play on both sides no matter what happens. The only way to manage that and stay married through whatever ends up happening is counseling and communication but even then it simple may not be enough.

 

For the record: the wife did not keep him from his dream. They made the decision to not pursue medical school together. She most certainly, based on available details, has been uncompromising but he had a choice in the matter, especially considering children were not involved yet, so let's not put this all on her.

 

I wish the OP luck and I truly hope you find a way, long-term, to work this out but definitely feel counseling is a must for any chance to exist.

 

yeah you know I pretty much agree with this - it is one thing to call someone unsupportive. It is an entirely other thing when you discuss something, come to an agreement, based on that agreement have 10 years of history/children/assets etc and now you have a change of heart. That could be called a mid life crisis actually (may not be - just something to consider). 

 

Making that decision will obviously impact her life and your kids greatly - why wouldn't she be concerned about that? So far the argument has been solely framed withe respect to the OPs wishes - not immediately clear how this will benefit the family after all (even if there is more income in say 8 years with the 2 years of school, 4 of med, 2 of residency at a minimum - could be more). Then the kids could be what - close to university age? You will literally be unexpectedly less available for 1/2 of their childhood or more actually. What exactly will that extra money let you do? There is of course the risk this could be longer - not getting in right away or perhaps (have to think about it) ever, not liking family medicine so going for 5 year etc, taking 2-3 years of the new income to pay down the loans... So what are you offering in return for the price of all this extra work, and financial cost you are putting on your family? How are you going to balance the scales? Of course if that doesn't matter as much to you as becoming a doctor then the decision is relatively easy and it is your life so do what you want.

 

I personally though find it hard to really blame the wife in this scenario.  Let's put it this way - people are suggesting she should make sacrifices etc but turn it around, what sacrifices is the OP willing to make? Main reason he states for doing this could be considered purely personal - he understandably wants more control, more impact.  That is ok, but equally ok is someone not being completely happy with that.   

 

That doesn't mean not to do it - only that I would say it is quite possible an original mistake was made - and that mistake will have a price as all mistakes do. Somehow either balance must be found or the marriage breaks down. May not be an easy answer here. Counselling is probably a good idea. 

[indefatigable]

I am glad to hear that the OP seems to be leaning towards counselling. I really hope that a solution can be worked out for all involved including children, spouse as well as the OP. I'm not sure in retrospect if I can give any more specific advice beyond counselling and communication which has been already mentioned. I wish the OP and his family the very best of luck in sorting this out.

[aaronjw]

The general tendency of this forum is filled with idyllic nonsense that encourages people to follow their dreams and ditch those deemed as "unsupportive" by people who have "relationships" totaling a cumulative length less than I keep a toothbrush for. It is quite nauseating.

 

The only people who ever talk about following your dreams are the 0.1% who made them into a reality. You never hear from those people who did and it didn't work out for them. Want to know why? They are struggling to repair their finances, life, relationships, etc from following those dreams everyone tells you to follow. At some point REALISM has to set in.

 

Do I consider myself successful? Meh. I don't know as I really don't know what that term means. I have a house, cars that get from point A to B, money in the bank, savings, a wife who I love and who loves me (most days lol), etc. I could not have any of these things without her. It's a two-way street. When I started my company way back when, before I sold it, and didn't get paid for almost a year who do you think paid the bills? She did. When I used to compete in bodybuilding there were many times I was so damn tried from training, lack of calories, and poor sleep that it was all I could do just to make it to work, train and attempt to sleep. Who do you think did the house cleaning, made sure bills were paid, did a lot of meal prep, etc? She Did. I go co on and on (and so could she about me). She didn't support some dream I had. She supported ME. Dreams don't pay bills, comfort you, make you feel better, provide happiness, or make love to you (sappy yea? lol) - people do.

 

My point is: relationships are hard and messy. They will be some of the hardest fucking work you will ever do in life if you want to have a decent to good one (not even great - that's a whole other type of hard ass work!). Don't find someone who supports dreams. Find someone who supports YOU. Evolution has taught us to be jaded and weary of people. It's natural. So it's rare when someone comes along in life who honestly and unconditionally believes in and supports you. Grab it, hold on to it and work HARD to never let it go.  You want someone to support you; not your dreams. 

 

I'll get off my soapbox now

 

P.S. I'm not sure why I chose to write that in this thread but don't take it to mean that I felt there was an overwhelming tone rants against "unsupportive dreams" 

[NeuroPreMed]

I pretty much never come on here anymore, but came on to contact someone. So, up to you how "important" my opinion is, but, any relationship that consists of an ultimatum isn't a real relationship. Obviously it isn't just that simple and you up and leave and live happily right away. But, if it's something you want to do, then try for it, and if your relationship/marriage ends because of it, maybe it's for the best.

[Birdy]

I second everything aaronjw and rmorelan said.

 

Quite honestly, if my husband had reasonable objections to my pursuing medicine, I would not be doing it. There are several things he could object to, like the fact that we have to uproot for several years, that it costs money we don't have, that it means he has to take on the majority of many of our household responsibilities at school-intensive times, and this is all just going to get worse when I'm actually in med school. That he is actually willing to shoulder all of this is something which makes me immensely happy. In our case, neither of us has a particularly stable career to fall back on, though, so we are doing this - together - for the betterment of our family. It is not just about me pursuing my dream. If I had a stable career in another field, I would most likely not be pursuing medicine at all, because the cost to my family would be significant. I would not put my dreams ahead of my family's stability. It just so happens that what I want to do is a stable career that will afford my children a lifestyle better than that which my husband and I were previously able to provide, so the sacrifices are worth it for all of us.

 

It sounds like in the OP's case, his wife does not believe the sacrifices would be worth it; and that's something she obviously made clear a decade ago, long before there were kids involved. I'm not condemning OP wanting to pursue medicine (that's why we're all on this site, after all) but as with all decisions that will affect one's children, it must be made with care and with a careful evaluation of the risks and benefits.

 

 

The general tendency of this forum is filled with idyllic nonsense that encourages people to follow their dreams and ditch those deemed as "unsupportive" by people who have "relationships" totaling a cumulative length less than I keep a toothbrush for. It is quite nauseating.(...snip...)

My point is: relationships are hard and messy. They will be some of the hardest fucking work you will ever do in life if you want to have a decent to good one (not even great - that's a whole other type of hard ass work!). Don't find someone who supports dreams. Find someone who supports YOU. Evolution has taught us to be jaded and weary of people. It's natural. So it's rare when someone comes along in life who honestly and unconditionally believes in and supports you. Grab it, hold on to it and work HARD to never let it go.  You want someone to support you; not your dreams. 

 

I'll get off my soapbox now

 

P.S. I'm not sure why I chose to write that in this thread but don't take it to mean that I felt there was an overwhelming tone rants against "unsupportive dreams" 

^Especially that.

 

Also - congrats on the forthcoming addition! I hadn't seen you mention that anywhere else.