How Do Universities Judge You?

[JessieMed]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a question concerning CaRMS. I am about to make my med school decision. I have been accepted in both McGill and Université de Montréal.

 

I know this seems early, but I want to maximize my chance of getting into anaesthesiology. I do not really mind the university where I do my residency. It would be great if I could go to Harvard or an Ivy League school. But, my love for compounds/chemistry/medicine really makes me want anaesthesiology as my first importance.

 

Since I just got in, I do not know how schools judge you. What exactly determines the "academic performance" that all schools put forward? Does that include the Med-P year at McGill and UdeM if you heard about it? Or does med-1 and med-2 count?

 

I know McGill has a pass/fail system. I do not understand how they can judge your academic performance from pass/fail.

 

Finally, does the choice between Udem and McGill affect my chances of getting residency in anaesthesiology? Does prestige matter?

 

I would really appreciate if you guys can help me. I have to make my choice soon.

[JohnGrisham]

Well if you're going to the US, then you're USMLE step scores will be big factors as will US LORs from staff anaesthesiologists.

[RiceWine]

McGill. thank yourself later. 

[LittleDaisy]

For UdM, you have grades like A, B, C, D, E; so it is pretty easy to judge your academic performance.

For McGill, you have pass or fail...but you do have honours for top 10% of class for each block, and scholarships for academic excellence. 

For anesthesiology, I think that no matter which medical school you go to (UdM or McGill); it really depends on your clinical skills and your clerkship performance (and of course your global application). They are looking for the best candidates and someone to work with, so they would prefer the best potential candidates out there  , the name of your medical school matters little.

I do agree that McGill offers more electives flexibility than UdM, and if you would like to pursue residency in English Canada; McGill is a safer bet.

Good luck and congrats!

Hi everyone,

 

I have a question concerning CaRMS. I am about to make my med school decision. I have been accepted in both McGill and Université de Montréal.

 

I know this seems early, but I want to maximize my chance of getting into anaesthesiology. I do not really mind the university where I do my residency. It would be great if I could go to Harvard or an Ivy League school. But, my love for compounds/chemistry/medicine really makes me want anaesthesiology as my first importance.

 

Since I just got in, I do not know how schools judge you. What exactly determines the "academic performance" that all schools put forward? Does that include the Med-P year at McGill and UdeM if you heard about it? Or does med-1 and med-2 count?

 

I know McGill has a pass/fail system. I do not understand how they can judge your academic performance from pass/fail.

 

Finally, does the choice between Udem and McGill affect my chances of getting residency in anaesthesiology? Does prestige matter?

 

I would really appreciate if you guys can help me. I have to make my choice soon.

[sleeping_sickness]

go to McGill. 

The most important thing is clerkship performance and building a strong cv. McGill allows you between 20-28 weeks of electives. You can do these anywhere (Canada, USA, international). I think UdeM really limits its students by allowing a very small number of electives that can be completed outside Quebec. If you want to maximize your chances of getting in to anesthesia you'll have more opportunity at getting in outside QC than you would at UdeM. And if you want to stay in QC for residency, you're at no disadvantage by having gone to McGill.

[JessieMed]

Thank you so much everyone! One other question: how can you arrange an elective in a US university? Do we need to do anything "special"? (newbie here.)

[JessieMed]

Actually the same question applies to other provinces too. Let's say for McMaster University or UofT?

[LittleDaisy]

Canadian medical students portal, it is new this year and you apply any electives within Canada through this portal! AFMC Student Portal.

You think way ahead, enjoy your last summer semester before med school   

Actually the same question applies to other provinces too. Let's say for McMaster University or UofT?

[Capucine]

We can do out of province electives at UdeM too... Up to 12 weeks. We have 20 weeks of electives during clerkship. 

And anyway you might chance your mind about what residency you want to do, we all do

[JJ1985]

Go to McGill

More time for electives

More research opportunities

Protected time to do interviews for CaRMS (not given at UdeM)

[sleeping_sickness]

Go to McGill

More time for electives

More research opportunities

Protected time to do interviews for CaRMS (not given at UdeM)

 

This is 100% true. We had a full 4 weeks off just to do our interviews. No one was struggling to get time off. 

[rmorelan]

This is 100% true. We had a full 4 weeks off just to do our interviews. No one was struggling to get time off. 

 

surprised everyone doesn't have that - I mean with UdeM how do you do the possibly do the  5-20 interviews you could have.

[ArchEnemy]

go to McGill. 

The most important thing is clerkship performance and building a strong cv. McGill allows you between 20-28 weeks of electives. You can do these anywhere (Canada, USA, international). I think UdeM really limits its students by allowing a very small number of electives that can be completed outside Quebec. If you want to maximize your chances of getting in to anesthesia you'll have more opportunity at getting in outside QC than you would at UdeM. And if you want to stay in QC for residency, you're at no disadvantage by having gone to McGill.

 

Do you really get 28 weeks of electives at McGill in any specialty that you decide to do it in? 

 

At UofT, the maximum number of electives we get is 14 (and this is if you decide to give up your vacation for electives).

[sleeping_sickness]

I think McGill's new curriculum is an integrated curriculum which means that you do all of your core rotations in 3rd year and only have elective time from July 1st onward. You have to do electives from 3 different disciplines. For example, if you're interested in surgery you can do 2 weeks of ICU, 2 weeks of GI and then do the rest in surgery. However there is something to say for diversifying your electives a little bit. 

 

We had 20 weeks of elective time. I did 14 weeks in my preferred discipline and 6 weeks outside of it and matched to my top choice specialty. McGill has many flaws but flexibility with electives isn't one of them. 

[The Bunny]

surprised everyone doesn't have that - I mean with UdeM how do you do the possibly do the 5-20 interviews you could have.

I think all the French schools in Quebec assume you don't need that much time to do the 4-8 interviews in Quebec. *Why would you want to leave la belle province?* super sarcasm. Or how can you if you are unilingual Francophone.

[rmorelan]

I think all the French schools in Quebec assume you don't need that much time to do the 4-8 interviews in Quebec. *Why would you want to leave la belle province?* super sarcasm. Or how can you if you are unilingual Francophone.

 

yeah....ok. Even with 4-8 though it seems odd (part of all that off time is interview prep etc).

 

I mean the entire point of medical school if you look at it a particular way is to match. Don't get in the way of the match.

[LittleDaisy]

At French schools, we could miss around 25% of our stage for CaRMS interview. I.E: around 1-2 weeks off during a 6 weeks of core rotation. Otherwise, you could arrange easily with your colleagues and have all your shifts at the beginning of the rotation and then have some time off.

The faculties are thinking about giving us 2-3 weeks off for CaRMS for the future cohorts. 

People do match fine and I know a several people who matched out of province for competitive specialties, and yes, we still do have grades on our transcripts 

Although I agree that McGill's policy is great 

We can do out of province electives at UdeM too... Up to 12 weeks. We have 20 weeks of electives during clerkship. 

And anyway you might chance your mind about what residency you want to do, we all do

[LittleDaisy]

Ahahah actually, most of my classmates speak English fluently and are bilingual. Most of the textbook references are in English and all the major medical scientific publications are in English as well. It is just that most people would like to stay close to family and to their significant others. 

I think all the French schools in Quebec assume you don't need that much time to do the 4-8 interviews in Quebec. *Why would you want to leave la belle province?* super sarcasm. Or how can you if you are unilingual Francophone.

[GGGSaint]

If you want to do your residency at MGH, BWH, or BID in Anesthesia then choose McGill. Pedigree matters and the McGill name is worth something in the US. Make sure to do an away rotation at one of the Harvard hospitals and be productive at McGill Med. Congrats on a great opportunity.

[sultanator]

I did 20+ interviews while in Sherbrooke and still managed to pass my rotations. Go with your guts as any of Quebec's 4 medical schools are good options for anesthesiology. The bulk of the work is on your shoulders, not the university name on your diploma. Be smart with your electives, work hard during clerkship and show interest in the fields you are gunning for. Plus there is a BIG chance you might change your mind along the way, so try to keep an open mind ... I'm sure you'll do great ! ????????

[JessieMed]

I did 20+ interviews while in Sherbrooke and still managed to pass my rotations. 

 

Sultanator, why did you have 20 interviews ? For CaRMS, are you not supposed to have only 7 choices of programs, ie 7 interviews max?

[amichel]

Sultanator, why did you have 20 interviews ? For CaRMS, are you not supposed to have only 7 choices of programs, ie 7 interviews max?

Nope you can apply to as many as you want it just costs more after a certain number.

Applying to only 7 would be very risky, actually.

[JessieMed]

Oh wow great! A book I read was so confusing! It lead me to believe we only had 7 programs.

 

How much does each application cost?

Also, if you apply to 20+ programs, that means that, for a lot of those programs, you did not do your electives there. Does this in any way impact your application?

 

Let's say I want to apply to UofT anest., but I only did electives at McGill and Université de Sherbrooke. Any chance?

[sleeping_sickness]

Oh wow great! A book I read was so confusing! It lead me to believe we only had 7 programs.

 

How much does each application cost?

Also, if you apply to 20+ programs, that means that, for a lot of those programs, you did not do your electives there. Does this in any way impact your application?

 

Let's say I want to apply to UofT anest., but I only did electives at McGill and Université de Sherbrooke. Any chance?

 

 

I think the first 4 applications are free and then it was something like $30-35 for each application after that. 

 

You could always apply to Toronto Anesthesia but if you didn't do an elective the chances of you getting an interview are slim. If you want to maximize your chances of being accepted to the discipline of your choice, you need to get yourself out there. Do electives in as many places as possible, meet the program directors, read like crazy and impress on your rotations. The more away electives you can do the higher your chances are of getting interviews at those schools. Of course, programs understand that you can't do an elective everywhere. However, some programs won't give you an interview if you haven't done an elective (even though they say on the carms site that this is not a factor). For example, Ottawa will almost never interview someone who hasn't done an elective. 

[LittleDaisy]

I agree with sleeping_sickness. The away electives increase your chances of being invited to competitive specialty interviews, since they will know you and you will probably have LORS from the respective training hospitals.  

However, I know someone who hadn't completed an anesthesiology elective in Ottawa and that person got invited to all the schools he applied to. However, the applicant was very strong, excellent academic performance, great LORS and above average block evaluations (honours and distinction).

 

Bottom line, if you want to increase your chance, do as many away electives as possible, it shows your interest and motivation, also the selection committee prefers applicants who have done an onsite elective (it is a plus). 

I think the first 4 applications are free and then it was something like $30-35 for each application after that. 

 

You could always apply to Toronto Anesthesia but if you didn't do an elective the chances of you getting an interview are slim. If you want to maximize your chances of being accepted to the discipline of your choice, you need to get yourself out there. Do electives in as many places as possible, meet the program directors, read like crazy and impress on your rotations. The more away electives you can do the higher your chances are of getting interviews at those schools. Of course, programs understand that you can't do an elective everywhere. However, some programs won't give you an interview if you haven't done an elective (even though they say on the carms site that this is not a factor). For example, Ottawa will almost never interview someone who hasn't done an elective.