Match Success Rate Of Canadian Grads Into U.s. Residency

[DrJackShephard]

I was wondering if anyone has any information/statistics regarding Canadian medical students matching into US residencies? Thanks!

[JohnGrisham]

Unlikely to find reliable statistics. You won't know the backgrounds of the applicants and competitiveness of them, or the reasoning for applying to the US. It could be many of them were 2nd time applicants, or that they have family ties wanting to go to the US.

If you really want to match in the US for some reason, you can do it fairly easily(depending on specialty). As long as there are IMGs matching there, CMGs will have zero issue in a relative sense.

[ralk]

NRMP Match Statistics

 

Fluctuates pretty heavily because of low sample size, so hard to draw any conclusions. Match rate overall seems to be around 70%. Be aware of the incoming J1 visa caps - it'd suck to match to the US and then be unable to get a visa to do your residency there.

[Edict]

Best time to go to the US is for fellowship, it seems more common at least among CMGs I've seen.

[drake19]

I was wondering if anyone has any information/statistics regarding Canadian medical students matching into US residencies? Thanks!

 

 

Since you are a CMG I do not recommend you go to the US for residency unless you love money more than anything, have some form of citizenship status (green card, US citizen) OR you think you will become a better physician. f  If you want to go to US for residency you go to a US school if you want to go to Cdn for res. then go to a Cdn school. There were only a handful of Canadian students (I believe less than 10 - definitely less than 20) So the sample size is pretty weak.

 

I will say this completing medical school in the US and residency allows you to transition smoothly back and forth between US and Canada. i.e. USMG = CMG for carms This is not true if you completed medical school in Canada. Also there are more perks for residents in the US - i.e. higher pay (USD >> Cdn$), pay for step 3, serve meals in physician lounges, nice free coffee machines, very comfortable call rooms that are cleaned 2 times a day, and free gym membership to the nice fitness centers attached to the hospital. Some hospitals in the US look like hotels more than hospitals. ALthough there are some horrific inner-city public hospitals.

 

 

Some programs have no international students from PGY1-4 years l i.e. Northwestern's psychiatry program and some programs are IMG program friendly

 

The best thing to help you match in the US regardless of where you come from IS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR USMLE SCORES (STEP 1,2CS,2CK) (will need to be higher than US-medical graduates) and academic grades. Class A criteria include USMLE scores, M3 clinical grades.

 

The big diff bet. Canada and US is that there is a lot more standardized testing (USMLE, NBMEs, etc. etc.) which helps them narrow down the immense field - i.e. almost 500 family medicine programs vs. the 14 or so? medical schools in Canada. Residency programs in the US aren't limited to just medical schools - hospitals can have their own residency programs as well.

 

This didn't answer your question but the take way is do your residency in Canada (unless you havea solid reason to do otherwise) and then go to the US for fellowship as a previous poster said.

The best way to make everything smooth for residency in the US is if you completed medical school in the US or have citizenship status (and also great category A criteria - i.e. USMLE scores and M3 clinical grades)

[drake19]

i will also add one more thing - in the US, residency interviews are handed out sept.15 (earlier for some specialties). US seniors have a very flexible 4th year for the most part. So if you Cdn med school does not have the same flexibility you may find it difficult to participate in the interview season running between sept (earlier in some cases) to Feb/March.

[JohnGrisham]

i will also add one more thing - in the US, residency interviews are handed out sept.15 (earlier for some specialties). US seniors have a very flexible 4th year for the most part. So if you Cdn med school does not have the same flexibility you may find it difficult to participate in the interview season running between sept (earlier in some cases) to Feb/March.

Definitely one consideration that is important, to see how the clinical years would be conducive or not to US interviews/selectives.

[MarshMellow]

I was wondering if anyone has any information/statistics regarding Canadian medical students matching into US residencies? Thanks!

It seems as though graduates from the big two in Canada (U of T & McGill) end up with greater success in matching to the States. Personally, I feel Americans would care more about the 'reputation' of the school you're from unfortunately. Hence, the lower likelihood of matching to the States if you're from any other Canadian school. 

 

39 Applied: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_40_CMGs_Appling_to_the_US_Match_NRMP_English.pdf

 

19 Matched: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_41_CMGs_Matched_in_the_US_Match_NRMP_English.pdf

[amichel]

It seems as though graduates from the big two in Canada (U of T & McGill) end up with greater success in matching to the States. Personally, I feel Americans would care more about the 'reputation' of the school you're from unfortunately. Hence, the lower likelihood of matching to the States if you're from any other Canadian school.

 

39 Applied: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_40_CMGs_Appling_to_the_US_Match_NRMP_English.pdf

 

19 Matched: http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_41_CMGs_Matched_in_the_US_Match_NRMP_English.pdf

Hmm. I think you're making some assumptions from this data that don't hold up. I think a good part of the difference in numbers is that U of T and McGill take some international (including American) students whereas most other schools do not. See the second table.

 

Plus the other schools have too small of a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about their success. And we have no clue if some of these people didn't match because the only ranked their top American programs because they prefer to stay in Canada. It's hard to know really.

[LittleDaisy]

McGill has spots reserved for international medical students. A few of them are Americans and want to go back to the States for residency   I guess that reputation does help, but the USMLE scores and clerkship count for a significant portion of selection as well

Hmm. I think you're making some assumptions from this data that don't hold up. I think a good part of the difference in numbers is that U of T and McGill take some international (including American) students whereas most other schools do not. See the second table.

Plus the other schools have too small of a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about their success. And we have no clue if some of these people didn't match because the only ranked their top American programs because they prefer to stay in Canada. It's hard to know really.

[amichel]

McGill has spots reserved for international medical students. A few of them are Americans and want to go back to the States for residency I guess that reputation does help, but the USMLE scores and clerkship count for a significant portion of selection as well

Yah that's what I meant.

[Edict]

You can't extrapolate anything from the Canadians matching to US data just because Canadian applicants are often reluctant to match to the US because it means missing out on Canadian residencies.

 

For this reason the whole premise of rank as much as you can interview everywhere and try to match to your top choice is thrown out the window when you consider that every Canadian school you rank has to be ranked higher than any American school you rank because the Canadian match happens before the American match (this is a very difficult concept to explain to premeds).

 

If you think you have a shot a Harvard for instance you are going to debate between the shot at Harvard and ranking a Canadian program. If it turns out Harvard doesn't take you you could end up completely unmatched.

[JohnGrisham]

You can't extrapolate anything from the Canadians matching to US data just because Canadian applicants are often reluctant to match to the US because it means missing out on Canadian residencies.

 

For this reason the whole premise of rank as much as you can interview everywhere and try to match to your top choice is thrown out the window when you consider that every Canadian school you rank has to be ranked higher than any American school you rank because the Canadian match happens before the American match (this is a very difficult concept to explain to premeds).

 

If you think you have a shot a Harvard for instance you are going to debate between the shot at Harvard and ranking a Canadian program. If it turns out Harvard doesn't take you you could end up completely unmatched.

This.

 

You can't make any extrapolations about Canadian applying to US. Way too small days. Not reasonable at all

[3change]

..

[amichel]

Since you can't enter CaRMS without citizenship or permanent residency, why would any American apply to Canada? If you're talking about dual citizens(CDN/US), then they would be eligible at every other Canadian school as well.

We're talking about Canadians applying to the states and international students at Canadian schools applying to the states.

[3change]

.

[MarshMellow]

Hmm. I think you're making some assumptions from this data that don't hold up. I think a good part of the difference in numbers is that U of T and McGill take some international (including American) students whereas most other schools do not. See the second table.

 

Plus the other schools have too small of a sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about their success. And we have no clue if some of these people didn't match because the only ranked their top American programs because they prefer to stay in Canada. It's hard to know really.

Yea, good points actually. 

[heydere]

HI everyone, I was wondering is it possible to apply for residency in the states after completing residency in Canada? 

[polarbear89]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:36 PM, heydere said:

HI everyone, I was wondering is it possible to apply for residency in the states after completing residency in Canada? 

Also wondering this. Anyone know?

[la marzocco]

1 hour ago, polarbear89 said:

Also wondering this. Anyone know?

I am pretty sure you are allowed you. But you might need to get fully licensed in your original specialty first. 

• Category B: Final year medical student currently enrolled in any medical school, or a medical graduate of any medical school, who has not yet completed a medical specialty training program in Canada or the US who wishes to pursue medical specialty training, or a medical graduate currently enrolled in U.S. specialty or subspecialty residency training program who wishes to pursue a fellowship in the U.S.; or a licenced physician who wishes to pursue a new field of practice.

[indefatigable]

On May 24, 2018 at 2:36 PM, heydere said:

HI everyone, I was wondering is it possible to apply for residency in the states after completing residency in Canada? 

3 hours ago, polarbear89 said:

Also wondering this. Anyone know?

Yes - my understanding is you're only eligible to apply when you complete your Canadian residency. At that point you can get a SON from Health Canada for a J-1 visa, under Category B (post above).  Out of the 9 CMGs that matched to the US last year, 7/9 were prior year graduates.  I'd suspect most would prefer H1Bs rather than J-1s, but these can be harder to obtain I think.   

[ZBL]

The question of Canadian match rate to the US is irrelevant as the number of confounding factors here are huge. USMLE score (massively important factor), reference letters from big names in the field, MD/PhD (often with lab connections), desired specialty (also massively important factor), availability of J-1 visa for your specialty, availability of H1-B visa for your desired residency, if you have US citizenship etc all have a much bigger influence than the mere fact of being from a Canadian school. Without a strong USMLE and at least one or ideally more of the others in check, the match rate from a Canadian school to the US is essentially zero.

 

[rmorelan]

1 hour ago, tere said:

Yes - my understanding is you're only eligible to apply when you complete your Canadian residency. At that point you can get a SON from Health Canada for a J-1 visa, under Category B (post above).  Out of the 9 CMGs that matched to the US last year, 7/9 were prior year graduates.  I'd suspect most would prefer H1Bs rather than J-1s, but these can be harder to obtain I think.   

I think they just dropped the statement of need if I read the materials they sent me ha. The H1Bs is in some senses better as you can moonlight, and directly transition to permanently living in the US. That being said although the J1 visa has a 2 year return requirement before you can go back to the US to live (stalling any transfer to permanently live in the US) it does have a small tax advantage (you don't pay US social assistance payments - roughly 500 US a month - that would be a chunk of any moonlighting I would have done in the US to say the least )

You also need all the USMLEs to get the H1B visa. 

so a lot of this boils down to what you are trying to end up with. There is supposed to be away to convert a J1 to a H1B but I hear it is extremely difficult to do. If you are coming back to Canada for sure then any different is rather small. 

[indefatigable]

19 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

I think they just dropped the statement of need if I read the materials they sent me ha. The H1Bs is in some senses better as you can moonlight, and directly transition to permanently living in the US. That being said although the J1 visa has a 2 year return requirement before you can go back to the US to live (stalling any transfer to permanently live in the US) it does have a small tax advantage (you don't pay US social assistance payments - roughly 500 US a month - that would be a chunk of any moonlighting I would have done in the US to say the least )

You also need all the USMLEs to get the H1B visa. 

so a lot of this boils down to what you are trying to end up with. There is supposed to be away to convert a J1 to a H1B but I hear it is extremely difficult to do. If you are coming back to Canada for sure then any different is rather small. 

There's also differences between fellow and resident.  Returning to Canada after US residency doesn't give automatic Canadian licensing for many specialties.  So H1B would probably be preferred, since there's no 2 year return requirement after residency (and have a chance at a Green card).  OTOH this wouldn't be an issue for fellowship.  

[heydere]

1 hour ago, ZBL said:

The question of Canadian match rate to the US is irrelevant as the number of confounding factors here are huge. USMLE score (massively important factor), reference letters from big names in the field, MD/PhD (often with lab connections), desired specialty (also massively important factor), availability of J-1 visa for your specialty, availability of H1-B visa for your desired residency, if you have US citizenship etc all have a much bigger influence than the mere fact of being from a Canadian school. Without a strong USMLE and at least one or ideally more of the others in check, the match rate from a Canadian school to the US is essentially zero.

 

Are there any US schools that are Canadian friendly for residencies?