medici Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I don't get it. If you look at the more competitive specialties: derm, opthal,, rads, plastics, they all have higher income relative to other medical specialties. But isn't EM is a measly 200k/year? Why is it competitive? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkittens Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Why would $$ be the only factor?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345c Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Lol, these forums are funny sometimes... 200k for EM? Double that for an ER doc in Alberta and add about 100-150k for BC.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spontaneouscombustion Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't know if I'd call 200k measly, but even then I dont think that's an accurate representation. A full-time EM doc can probably make more than that. I think it comes down to a few things: - people like the work - very mobile job (decent job market, and your patients come to you wherever you go) - money is good for the hours And probably more than a bit has to do with the ER (TV show) effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 It isn't just the money - there is the "TV effect" I suppose - the idea of some adrenaline, immediately having an impact, less politics to wade through as the ER has priority status to tests and consults. Also it is really a nice residency program and not a terrible end lifestyle either. Something like 18 shifts of about 8-9 hours at a time a month. Granted some can be overnight but others have that as well as a part of their call shifts with more added time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 ...less politics to wade through as the ER has priority status to tests and consults. I don't know about less politics, though arguably emerg gets involved in different politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't know about less politics, though arguably emerg gets involved in different politics. well at least they have the trump card - immediately patient needs. Not sure if my institution is special but they basically can get any test they want, no one can refuse a consult and once consulted that service is immediately the team now responsible for that patient (even if it doesn't make a lot of sense - although that team can then ask for a transfer to another team). The gov has prioritized emerg wait times, so the hospital has prioritized the emerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_015 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 1) Procedures. 2) Acuity. 3) Set shift hours. 4) Lack of continuity of care (if that's what you are into). 5) Instant gratification. 6) Jobs still great to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 1) Procedures. 2) Acuity. 3) Set shift hours. 4) Lack of continuity of care (if that's what you are into). 5) Instant gratification. 6) Jobs still great to come by. that last one is pretty important - there are a lot of emergs out there, and you can even work part time at a lot of places, ramp up or down the number of shifts you do..... flexibility is a pretty awesome thing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't get it. If you look at the more competitive specialties: derm, opthal,, rads, plastics, they all have higher income relative to other medical specialties. But isn't EM is a measly 200k/year? Why is it competitive? I don't get it. I don't know if I can add anything that hasn't already been said, but here goes: a) $200k/year isn't "measly" That's 2-3x median Canadian *household* income (1) having said that, $200k/year is a very low income for a full-time emergency physician c) lots of people find the job really interesting d) it's a mobile job. If I had a compelling reason to work in a specific city, I could likely get a job there without a lot of hassle. e) at the moment there's lots of demand for emergency physicians f) good balance of "hands on" and "thinking" g) it's a lifestyle specialty. Want to have 2 weeks off every month to go climb mountains?...find a group that will accommodate that sort of scheduling and go nuts. h) TV effect - all ER physicians look like George Clooney. That's why they ask for a photo in CaRMS. i) Re: politics - There are definitely politics, but that the politics are different than that of inpatient medicine. (1) http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil108a-eng.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfdes Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 It isn't just the money - there is the "TV effect" I suppose - the idea of some adrenaline, immediately having an impact, less politics to wade through as the ER has priority status to tests and consults. Also it is really a nice residency program and not a terrible end lifestyle either. Something like 18 shifts of about 8-9 hours at a time a month. Granted some can be overnight but others have that as well as a part of their call shits with more added time. Freudian slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEAL Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I am under the impression that EM physicians live a hectic lifestyle, am I wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 well at least they have the trump card - immediately patient needs. Not sure if my institution is special but they basically can get any test they want, no one can refuse a consult and once consulted that service is immediately the team now responsible for that patient (even if it doesn't make a lot of sense - although that team can then ask for a transfer to another team). The gov has prioritized emerg wait times, so the hospital has prioritized the emerg. I'd say that ICU is really the only place that can get any test. Fortunately at my institution the MRP remains the ERP until a patient is admitted. And we can refuse consults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I am under the impression that EM physicians live a hectic lifestyle, am I wrong ? It's more unpredicatble in terms of when you work, due to the shift work nature. And the shifts are busy (depending on the size of your centre). But the flexibility you can have and the lifestyle wouldn't lead me to call it hectic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I'd say that ICU is really the only place that can get any test. Fortunately at my institution the MRP remains the ERP until a patient is admitted. And we can refuse consults. ha, true - you really cannot refuse ICU anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It's more unpredicatble in terms of when you work, due to the shift work nature. And the shifts are busy (depending on the size of your centre). But the flexibility you can have and the lifestyle wouldn't lead me to call it hectic. some do get stablity out of it by making arrangements. For instance there are a couple of ER docs at Ottawa that only work nights. Since that is a less preferred shift they now basically have exactly the schedule they asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Freudian slip? Maybe so......or I cannot type. Either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 some do get stablity out of it by making arrangements. For instance there are a couple of ER docs at Ottawa that only work nights. Since that is a less preferred shift they now basically have exactly the schedule they asked for. Very true, it's the same thing here as well. That's why I used the qualifier "more". It's hard to make general statements about any specialty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mononoke Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Emerg popularity might also be a reflection of the types of students we are accepting into med schools these days. We don't just want people who have high marks or research focused, we want well-rounded applicants who have diverse interests in everything. Those going into emerg tend to like a bit of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDaisy Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 My teacher in small group is an emergency doctor. He said that his working schedule is pretty flexible, he has 1-2 weeks of time off per month and the jobs are easy to come by in all the academic centers. Also, emergency is very interesting for those who love adrenaline and who love a bit of everything, it is pretty hand on and also requires a good knowledge of everything I personally don't think that money matters that much, we will all make a lot of money. Don't pick your speciality based on money, because you will be doing that job for more than 40 hours per week Emerg popularity might also be a reflection of the types of students we are accepting into med schools these days. We don't just want people who have high marks or research focused, we want well-rounded applicants who have diverse interests in everything. Those going into emerg tend to like a bit of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thsc Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 My teacher in small group is an emergency doctor. He said that his working schedule is pretty flexible, he has 1-2 weeks of time off per month and the jobs are easy to come by in all the academic centers. Also, emergency is very interesting for those who love adrenaline and who love a bit of everything, it is pretty hand on and also requires a good knowledge of everything I personally don't think that money matters that much, we will all make a lot of money. Don't pick your speciality based on money, because you will be doing that job for more than 40 hours per week How is that that they're able to get that much time off? Is it because they would work super long shifts every day for the other 2-3 weeks of the month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDaisy Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 How is that that they're able to get that much time off? Is it because they would work super long shifts every day for the other 2-3 weeks of the month? Not exactly, they happen to work day or night shifts (normally 8-10 hours) for the rest of 2-3 weeks. Also, the schedule is rather flexible. So if you want the night shifts or the morning shifts, you could easily arrange with your ER colleagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Not exactly, they happen to work day or night shifts (normally 8-10 hours) for the rest of 2-3 weeks. Also, the schedule is rather flexible. So if you want the night shifts or the morning shifts, you could easily arrange with your ER colleagues Exactly it is just part of the culture - people can just get up and leave almost at will You pay for in income but as I say often ha I come after a point is not as important as freedom to actually do something with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thsc Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Exactly it is just part of the culture - people can just get up and leave almost at will You pay for in income but as I say often ha I come after a point is not as important as freedom to actually do something with it. So is the average income of ~200k/year for EM physicians based on the fact that the average ER physician will take 1-2 weeks off per month? I assume the 8-10 hour days doesn't include weekends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDaisy Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I am sure that they make more than 200 k per year. Even in Quebec, the ER doctors get paid more than 300 K per year, some ER doctors get paid more than 500 K. Always depend on how you bill and how many procedures you perform. The ER shifts are pretty demanding both physically and mentally, so working 2-3 weeks per month is considered full time (at least in Quebec) So is the average income of ~200k/year for EM physicians based on the fact that the average ER physician will take 1-2 weeks off per month? I assume the 8-10 hour days doesn't include weekends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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