Surgical specialties with good job prospects?

[user123456]

I’ve been reading about how poor the job market is for surgeons and was wondering if there are any specialties of gen Sx or surgical sub-specialities that actually have good job prospects? Ideally in metropolitan areas (GTA/Vancouver/Calgary).

[IMislove]

11 minutes ago, user123456 said:

I’ve been reading about how poor the job market is for surgeons and was wondering if there are any specialties of gen Sx or surgical sub-specialities that actually have good job prospects? Ideally in metropolitan areas (GTA/Vancouver/Calgary).

Those are the areas that DO NOT have a good job market lol. Expect community job  if at all. Let @NLengr assist you.

[user123456]

5 minutes ago, IMislove said:

Those are the areas that DO NOT have a good job market lol. Expect community job  if at all. Let @NLengr assist you.

Fair but which have the best job prospects? Much of the data about current load and future demand is only for certain specialities i.e. vascular/ortho. Does Gen Sx with trauma/ACS have a good job market? I assume just because no one wants to work these very time intensive jobs

[#YOLO]

LOL...none in any of those areas without years of unique fellowship...or hardcore research/phd/academic interests. gg

[hero147]

Obs/Gyn maybe?

[NLengr]

If you are looking at large centers, there are no surgical specialties with good job prospects. Competition for jobs in big cities is intense. Even if you do a fellowship, lots of research and an advanced academic degree, luck stil has a huge role in landing a position. You need to be lucky to have a spot open up when you are entering the job market. Those spots don't open up all that often. You also have to be lucky enough the group gets along with you. You could be the best kind of person but if you don't mesh with the group dynamics at the time, you won't get a look in. Plus there will be multiple other people like you who want the job. 

 

My advice with choosing a surgical specialty (or any specialty involving lots of hospital resources) is to make sure you would be happy doing that specialty in a community job ANYWHERE in the country (rural NL, Northern Saskachewan, Northwestern Ontario etc.). If you more value a location (urban center, specific city etc.), pick a specialty that can exist with minimal affiliation with a hospital (family, psych, general internal etc).

Think very hard about your priorities because once you match, it's hard to change your path in life.

[user123456]

14 hours ago, #YOLO said:

LOL...none in any of those areas without years of unique fellowship...or hardcore research/phd/academic interests. gg

I don’t mind going through all the academics (fellowship/msc/phd) and working very hard. Just as long as there is possibility at a GTA/Hamilton/Calg/Vancouver hospital

[GrouchoMarx]

25 minutes ago, user123456 said:

I don’t mind going through all the academics (fellowship/msc/phd) and working very hard. Just as long as there is possibility at a GTA/Hamilton hospital

That's a big ask

[IMislove]

1 hour ago, user123456 said:

I don’t mind going through all the academics (fellowship/msc/phd) and working very hard. Just as long as there is possibility at a GTA/Hamilton/Calg/Vancouver hospital

Of course there is always a possibility, but I think it’s not getting through just how little that possibility is. Like go in thinking you’re NOT going to end up there essentially is the the point we’re all making, as in harder than getting into med.  feel free to risk it, just know you’re very likely Not going to end up there is all, lest you join the multitude of surgeons going to the states or being jobless due to not willing to move far away for work. May the odds be ever in your favour. NLengr is the go to for best info on here IMO.

 

I too am eyeing a surgical subspec but am prepared to be in a smaller city/community.

[NLengr]

1 hour ago, user123456 said:

I don’t mind going through all the academics (fellowship/msc/phd) and working very hard. Just as long as there is possibility at a GTA/Hamilton/Calg/Vancouver hospital

I would at best assume it is a 30-50% shot. And I am probably being generous. 

If you are prioritizing a few high demand urban areas, you are best off in a specialty like psych/family/etc. where you can work outside the hospital system. Otherwise you run the very real risk of being forced to work somewhere you dislike just to pay the bills.

I'm speaking for experience here. I wouldn't have done a surgical specialty if I had my time back. I would have prioritized location. 

[user123456]

31 minutes ago, NLengr said:

I would at best assume it is a 30-50% shot. And I am probably being generous. 

If you are prioritizing a few high demand urban areas, you are best off in a specialty like psych/family/etc. where you can work outside the hospital system. Otherwise you run the very real risk of being forced to work somewhere you dislike just to pay the bills.

I'm speaking for experience here. I wouldn't have done a surgical specialty if I had my time back. I would have prioritized location. 

Psych/family/GIM, are there any others that are conducive? ER or Anesthesia?

[hero147]

2 hours ago, user123456 said:

I don’t mind going through all the academics (fellowship/msc/phd) and working very hard. Just as long as there is possibility at a GTA/Hamilton/Calg/Vancouver hospital

If you're also okay with places like London, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Kingston, I would say your chances of getting a job is damn near 90% provided it's not super specialized or neurosurgery/pediatric surgery provided you truly are okay with jumping through the various hoops of PhD programs and multiple fellowships. You may be okay with jumping through all the hoops now when you're 21-22, but that answer may change when you're 32-33 and trying to start a family and anxious to start living your life. 

[user123456]

3 minutes ago, hero147 said:

If you're also okay with places like London, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Kingston, I would say your chances of getting a job is damn near 90% provided it's not super specialized or neurosurgery/pediatric surgery provided you truly are okay with jumping through the various hoops of PhD programs and multiple fellowships. You may be okay with jumping through all the hoops now when you're 21-22, but that answer may change when you're 32-33 and trying to start a family and anxious to start living your life. 

I’m asexual and have no close family alive still, so I plan to only live for my career. What you’re saying makes sense though. I am mainly interested in the big cities for the academic opportunities.

[GrouchoMarx]

Derm is the best bet for this but getting into that has it's own issues

[blah1234]

I have met many students that state they are okay with the neverending training grind of residency/fellowship/PhD/locums but believing something is not the same as actually living that life. Desirable centers are not only looking for "good" doctors but they are looking for people that can fit in an existing group which can lead to nasty fallouts after an initial probationary employment offer. 

[hero147]

3 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

Derm is the best bet for this but getting into that has it's own issues

What are the issues with derm?

[GrouchoMarx]

39 minutes ago, hero147 said:

What are the issues with derm?

50% match rate and a looks requirement

[monocle]

6 hours ago, NLengr said:

I would at best assume it is a 30-50% shot. And I am probably being generous. 

If you are prioritizing a few high demand urban areas, you are best off in a specialty like psych/family/etc. where you can work outside the hospital system. Otherwise you run the very real risk of being forced to work somewhere you dislike just to pay the bills.

I'm speaking for experience here. I wouldn't have done a surgical specialty if I had my time back. I would have prioritized location. 

This is quite concerning considering I've already busted my ass landing a spot in a surgical specialty and my goal is to work in a large center. 

Welp. When does the grind end?! How do I make myself more competitive from day one? I've already done a post-grad degree and will be doing a fellowship/s.

[anonymouspls]

1 hour ago, GrouchoMarx said:

50% match rate and a looks requirement

Are you serious 

[Edict]

On 6/21/2019 at 2:19 PM, user123456 said:

I’ve been reading about how poor the job market is for surgeons and was wondering if there are any specialties of gen Sx or surgical sub-specialities that actually have good job prospects? Ideally in metropolitan areas (GTA/Vancouver/Calgary).

The job market will never be good for academic big city positions because there are always a flow of international well trained surgeons who are happy to do fellowships and phds to get positions. You need to at least match them in order to get those positions generally speaking. 

However, with that being said, vascular surgery has a pretty good job market right now. It might not be the case when you graduate though. 

The job market in the US in general for surgeons is quite good, so if you are open to the US, its something to consider potentially. 

[NLengr]

2 hours ago, ysera said:

Are you serious 

Officially no. Unofficially, I'd say yes. 

[GrouchoMarx]

2 hours ago, ysera said:

Are you serious 

It's not explicitly stated but derms are attractive. If not then they're either too brilliant to ignore or related to the right person.

[anonymouspls]

Just now, GrouchoMarx said:

It's not explicitly stated but derms are attractive. If not then they're brilliant or related to the right person.

 

1 minute ago, NLengr said:

Officially no. Unofficially, I'd say yes. 

 

well that's kind of stupid lmao 

[LittleDaisy]

On 6/21/2019 at 9:50 PM, NLengr said:

If you are looking at large centers, there are no surgical specialties with good job prospects. Competition for jobs in big cities is intense. Even if you do a fellowship, lots of research and an advanced academic degree, luck stil has a huge role in landing a position. You need to be lucky to have a spot open up when you are entering the job market. Those spots don't open up all that often. You also have to be lucky enough the group gets along with you. You could be the best kind of person but if you don't mesh with the group dynamics at the time, you won't get a look in. Plus there will be multiple other people like you who want the job. 

 

My advice with choosing a surgical specialty (or any specialty involving lots of hospital resources) is to make sure you would be happy doing that specialty in a community job ANYWHERE in the country (rural NL, Northern Saskachewan, Northwestern Ontario etc.). If you more value a location (urban center, specific city etc.), pick a specialty that can exist with minimal affiliation with a hospital (family, psych, general internal etc).

Think very hard about your priorities because once you match, it's hard to change your path in life.

I think that general internal medicine is saturated in urban areas. Most GIM work in hospitals covering wards and does occasionally outpatient clinic. In GTA, a lot of young grads who are unwilling to leave the city are actually doing 1-2 years of Master or Fellowship trying to get into academic hospitals, who put you into 1-3 years of probationary year with temporary privileges, some staff do end up leaving after not getting along with the group, or not publishing enough papers, or not getting good reviews from their peers. 

If you want to do pure outpatient clinic, you have to make sure that you have enough Family Medicine friends who can recommend you and generate enough referrals to cover the overhead. We usually refer to GIM in academic hospital to expedite the work-up or for query presentation NYD. 

A few of the people that I know are just covering night ER shifts here and there, barely covering the bills. There are higher demands in rural or smaller sized cities for full-time GIM, but after you have a family with a significant partner, it is often difficult to move away from the city. 

It's funny that at beginning of medical school people usually pursue what they love as a specialty, and towards the end of medical school or during their residency, they start to take into consideration location and lifestyle factor. 

[user123456]

7 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

I think that general internal medicine is saturated in urban areas. Most GIM work in hospitals covering wards and does occasionally outpatient clinic. In GTA, a lot of young grads who are unwilling to leave the city are actually doing 1-2 years of Master or Fellowship trying to get into academic hospitals, who put you into 1-3 years of probationary year with temporary privileges, some staff do end up leaving after not getting along with the group, or not publishing enough papers, or not getting good reviews from their peers. 

If you want to do pure outpatient clinic, you have to make sure that you have enough Family Medicine friends who can recommend you and generate enough referrals to cover the overhead. We usually refer to GIM in academic hospital to expedite the work-up or for query presentation NYD. 

A few of the people that I know are just covering night ER shifts here and there, barely covering the bills. There are higher demands in rural or smaller sized cities for full-time GIM, but after you have a family with a significant partner, it is often difficult to move away from the city. 

It's funny that at beginning of medical school people usually pursue what they love as a specialty, and towards the end of medical school or during their residency, they start to take into consideration location and lifestyle factor. 

Any thoughts on GSx with ACS? Would have the ability to do gen surg, cover trauma or cover ICU right? So would that mean a pretty good marketability?