Salary in Family medicine

[Blake]

I mean even in med school I have yet to open my modern warfare 2 that I bought 2-3 weeks ago because of other things going on. IMAGINE!! MW2!! and I'm still in the school part of things.

And to think there's Mass Effect 2, God of War 3, Final Fantasy XIII, Bioshock 2 and many more around the corner.

[moo]

You guys obviously don't live in Vancouver. If you want to get a nice new house in Vancouver proper you're looking at least at 1.3 mil. And you're not even talking about the nicest part of Vancouver (far from it). I'm desperately saving for that house now. You can never have too much money in Vancouver... unless the housing prices start dropping which I'm predicting it will pretty soon. THe money's already drying up before the Olympics begin.

[bnface]

drug money has inflated the cost of everything in vancouver.

[Jochi1543]

Now with that said, time is a more precious resource than money as a physician. You will have too much money for the amount of time you have free after you spend it with family and such. I mean even in med school I have yet to open my modern warfare 2 that I bought 2-3 weeks ago because of other things going on. IMAGINE!! MW2!! and I'm still in the school part of things.

 

And to think there's Mass Effect 2, God of War 3, Final Fantasy XIII, Bioshock 2 and many more around the corner.

 

Also ordered mass effect 2 Collector's edition, and it's sitting in my living room UNOPENED!! hopefully time this week.

 

Talk about horrible time management...I make time for p101 and computer games daily.

[Mourning Cloak]

Suggestion: If you want to live in Vancouver, resign yourself to spending more.

 

A friend of ours (specialist) is making $300K (after overhead, before taxes) in rural Atlantic Canada.

 

His house (really NICE NICE oceanfront house) cost $450K.

 

If he were working in Vancouver, it'd be $400 and the house would cost around $5 million + (no kidding). If it were as close to VGH as his house is to his workplace, it'd be more like $10 million.

 

But there are lots of people for whom it wouldn't be worth it to live in the rural maritimes, even if housing is cheaper. Big cities are crazy expensive: you just have to decide (for yourself) whether they're worth the cost.

[A-Stark]

Not all big cities are as crazy expensive. Vancouver is just nuts. But I'm staying in NS most like anyway...

[moo]

But it is to my understanding that physician incomes are also higher? I might be mistaken. Regardless, the increase in salaries is not proportional to living costs. My friend from vancouver was telling me about the housing prices.

 

Physician incomes are definitely not higher in BC. You make way more in Alberta for instance, and housing prices are dirt cheap there, even in Calgary and Edmonton, so-called "desirable" places to live.

[moo]

But it is to my understanding that physician incomes are also higher? I might be mistaken. Regardless, the increase in salaries is not proportional to living costs. My friend from vancouver was telling me about the housing prices.

 

Physician incomes are definitely not higher in BC. You make way more in Alberta for instance, and housing prices are dirt cheap there, even in Calgary and Edmonton, so-called "desirable" places to live. Problem is, aside from Vancouver, there really is no place in Canada I would want to live, so I'm stuck with these crazy prices I have to deal with.

[Icebox]

Physician incomes are definitely not higher in BC. You make way more in Alberta for instance, and housing prices are dirt cheap there, even in Calgary and Edmonton, so-called "desirable" places to live. Problem is, aside from Vancouver, there really is no place in Canada I would want to live, so I'm stuck with these crazy prices I have to deal with.

 

Housing is nowhere near dirt cheap in Alberta unless you're living in a very below-average area. They don't hit Vancouver prices but it's still fairly expensive.

 

Regardless of where you're at you'll always find money to be an issue... the more you make, the more you find to spend.

[Jochi1543]

Housing is nowhere near dirt cheap in Alberta unless you're living in a very below-average area. They don't hit Vancouver prices but it's still fairly expensive.

 

Ha, yeah...I wouldn't call my old Calgary apartment, which was a 1-bedroom and went for $1050 (utilities included, thankfully), "dirt-cheap."

[da_birdie]

Family doc here, 1.5 years into practice, 28 years old.

 

I game regularly (MMORPG, RTS, PS3) in my spare time, worked 40 hours a week on average last year but recently finished a part-time locum to go down to 30 hours/week, 4 days a week (Thursday and weekends off) - why not enjoy single life a bit more : )　

 

I'm currently quite content in my fuel-efficient civic for vancouver-commute.. I may look into other 'luxury compacts' in the not-so-distant future (IS250/350/A4/TSX), or maybe a hybrid (eg Lexus HS250H). I suppose there is a lot of 'peer-pressure' to get nice cars in Vancouver. Heck, the standard bottom-line vehicle for private school teens seems to be BMW 3-series! Though I try not to have myself defined or motivated by status symbols.. (But if you're an auto-enthusiast, then that's another matter completely)

 

I however spend relatively generously on my tech gigs. Depreciating as they may be, they're nowhere as expensive as luxury cars and provide me with much more entertainment

 

Re: housing in Vancouver. It is ridiculous, and I agree with moo that it is bound to have a major downward correction. I follow a couple real-estate-related websites regularly which some of you might find to be of interest: http://www.greaterfool.ca , http://vancouvercondo.info , http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com .

When interest rate goes up (which it is bound to), the introduction of HST, possibility of tightening of mortgage requirements (eg minimum 10% down or 30 year amortizations), shrinking employment and government budget (and resulting higher consumer/property taxes), the only way for real estate to go is down. I'll be sticking with renting and staying mobile (and financially liquid) for the next couple years.

 

Just my 2 cents to chip into this interesting thread : )

[Jochi1543]

 

 

When interest rate goes up (which it is bound to), the introduction of HST, possibility of tightening of mortgage requirements (eg minimum 10% down or 30 year amortizations), shrinking employment and government budget (and resulting higher consumer/property taxes), the only way for real estate to go is down. I'll be sticking with renting and staying mobile (and financially liquid) for the next couple years.

 

Sounds like a smart idea.

[apache]

LOL... in medicine you don't have to SELL your services to anyone, you bill the GOVERNMENT. you really don't have to COMPETE for patients, your pay isn't really based on PERFORMANCE, what better a career for a consistently good lifestyle and pay

 

i like med but i'll be very straight up here and say i wouldn't do it if i didnt think id be making 250 k a year in 5 years...

 

you're wrong about the 250 k min for mba's.... thats a total FAIL... docs who work full time DO make 200 k... don't believe me, a lot of the data is on gov websites... check it out

 

you also don't realize that a lot of medicine isn't stressful and demanding... allergy and immunology, hematology, endocrinology, rheumatology, fp, geriatrics, consult neuro, er, derm, rads, sports med, optho, and psych all have sick hours and great pay

 

i tired of justifying the fact that i want to make money... lol, i said it today in front of a cardio fellow (who, himself, was like in his 6th yr of res) when another person was preaching about doing what you love (even though it takes an 8 yr residency) and he was like yeah, lots of people do med for money and a good lifestyle, and thats totally valid, thats why ppl do fp..

 

BTW, ne residents or newly minted fp's know of any good idea's for making good coin in fm?

 

Well,blake,i was not trying to decrease competition or anything,most people here think that way...what ever.

I was just trying to say that if money is your ONLY goal,then trust me,med is not for you.

An MBA is a master degree,and the salary really depends on your specialty,just like MDs..lol

A 5-8 years experienced banker with an MBA can get a minimum of 250k/year in Canada.I agree that MDs get more money straight out,but seriously,since most of them work overtime and can't live decent relationships (especially specialists.),if that person has no passion on what he's doing,he'll be drinking jack's whiskey and valium,falling into depression,and end up blowing their brain's out.

So yeah,if profit and prestige is your only aim on a such stressful and demanding job,i don't see the point of doing it,when you can study on another thing,eventually get more money after a bit of time and don't have to worry on crazy schedules.

It was just an opinion,nothing to offence anyone.

[apache]

I'll double but sub in with mid 20's

 

 

I'm in the first group. I'd rather be early 30s and drive a bmw or a benz as opposed to being the guy with the white hair, gut and driving the koenigsigg.

[moo]

LOL... in medicine you don't have to SELL your services to anyone, you bill the GOVERNMENT. you really don't have to COMPETE for patients, your pay isn't really based on PERFORMANCE, what better a career for a consistently good lifestyle and pay

 

i like med but i'll be very straight up here and say i wouldn't do it if i didnt think id be making 250 k a year in 5 years...

 

you're wrong about the 250 k min for mba's.... thats a total FAIL... docs who work full time DO make 200 k... don't believe me, a lot of the data is on gov websites... check it out

 

you also don't realize that a lot of medicine isn't stressful and demanding... allergy and immunology, hematology, endocrinology, rheumatology, fp, geriatrics, consult neuro, er, derm, rads, sports med, optho, and psych all have sick hours and great pay

 

i tired of justifying the fact that i want to make money... lol, i said it today in front of a cardio fellow (who, himself, was like in his 6th yr of res) when another person was preaching about doing what you love (even though it takes an 8 yr residency) and he was like yeah, lots of people do med for money and a good lifestyle, and thats totally valid, thats why ppl do fp..

 

BTW, ne residents or newly minted fp's know of any good idea's for making good coin in fm?

 

YOu have to be smart to make money. I figure after I am done, along with my public health salary (about 200K salaried), I can pull in about 450-500K a year before taxes.

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing about how people can't make any money in FP. If you're smart, efficient, know what you're doing (i.e., how to bill properly) you will make the money. I can tell you that even if you don't work hard you will still make more than 95% of the population.

[apache]

Family has a shorter and easier residency than other specialties, the ability to work whatever hours you want, get a job wherever you want... you could move to california, banff or montreal in a second as jobs are everywhere, these are advantages other specialties don't have. You can supplement your income extremely easily (I met a doc who did vasectomies every friday so he could devote more time to patient care on his other 4 days, you can also do cosmetics..) family is what you make of it, if you want to make tons of money it isn't that hard.

 

Family has a ton of perks other specialties don't have, so that's something you have to remember as well.

 

No offense muse, but you are kind of missing the point. Nobody is saying 200k isn't good money. The problem that many people have when they are in medicine is that relative to what your colleagues are making, it isn't that great. Everything in life is relative. You paint a picture of hardship, but that isn't the environment we are speaking of. We shouldn't be comparing apples and oranges. Relative to other areas of medicine, family doesn't pay as well. That is where the value of discussion here lies. If you want to speak from a higher levels, so be it...but understand it then becomes a sermon, not a discussion.

[Guest viscous]

since I am an auto enthusiast, I am wondering if an average FP can afford to buy a mclaren after 5 years of practice ... or if a FP ever had!

 

I know one guy who got his GT-R (godzilla) recently.

[bnface]

since I am an auto enthusiast, I am wondering if an average FP can afford to buy a mclaren after 5 years of practice ... or if a FP ever had!

 

I know one guy who got his GT-R (godzilla) recently.

 

the average FP can actually afford an F-35 Military fighter jet. its rare these days to find an FP that actually drives to work.

[Guest viscous]

the average FP can actually afford an F-35 Military fighter jet. its rare these days to find an FP that actually drives to work.

 

did I miss the sarcasm? I am sorry, not sure if that was a joke or a serious reply? Nevertheless, F-35 is nice. I would however prefer F-22 or the classic Mirage 2000 any day.

 

edit: from wiki "Up until 1998, when McLaren produced and sold the standard F1 models, they had a price tag of around 970 000 USD.[6] Today the cars can sell for up to nearly twice that of the original price, due to the performance and exclusivity of the machine. They are expected to further increase in value over time." So I guess a typical FP is not allowed to enslave that beast.

[tooty]

YOu have to be smart to make money. I figure after I am done, along with my public health salary (about 200K salaried), I can pull in about 450-500K a year before taxes.

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing about how people can't make any money in FP. If you're smart, efficient, know what you're doing (i.e., how to bill properly) you will make the money. I can tell you that even if you don't work hard you will still make more than 95% of the population.

 

What's your situation going to be like moo? You're going to work as an fp and in public health?

[olecranon]

Hi everyone,

pardon my ignorance but what does it mean when the posts above say they take call in family medicine? how is there call in family?

[JewelLeigh]

Hi everyone,

pardon my ignorance but what does it mean when the posts above say they take call in family medicine? how is there call in family?

Could mean a variety of things.

 

For family docs who strictly practice family medicine, call could include:

- Telehealth Advisory Service

- Nursing Home or Palliative patient urgencies or rounds

- Walk-in clinic for the doctor's group's patients after-hours

- On call for deaths occurring in nursing homes or the community

 

For family docs who do hospital or other work, call could also include:

- In-patient emergencies and/or rounds

- Second-on-call to the local ER

- On call for obstetrics patients of the doctor's group

- On call for anesthesia for those who do gp/anes

[bloh]

This thread is too large and I will certainly go through it at some point but I am wondering if this was covered.

It is easy to find out what an average FP bills the government but how do the overhead costs come into.

 

ex.

Physician bills $200,000. Physician pays $50,000 to the administrative assistant and another $30,000 (made up figure) for remaining overhead costs such as rent, supplies etc. That leaves him/her with only $120,000. That number doesn't look so good, especially if the physician has to pay tax on the original gross billing amount of 200,000 rather than the 120k.

 

How does it work exactly?

[AndreaM]

This thread is too large and I will certainly go through it at some point but I am wondering if this was covered.

It is easy to find out what an average FP bills the government but how do the overhead costs come into.

 

ex.

Physician bills $200,000. Physician pays $50,000 to the administrative assistant and another $30,000 (made up figure) for remaining overhead costs such as rent, supplies etc. That leaves him/her with only $120,000. That number doesn't look so good, especially if the physician has to pay tax on the original gross billing amount of 200,000 rather than the 120k.

 

How does it work exactly?

 

You don't pay tax on your gross income. Tax is based on your net income after write-offs.

[rmorelan]

This thread is too large and I will certainly go through it at some point but I am wondering if this was covered.

It is easy to find out what an average FP bills the government but how do the overhead costs come into.

 

ex.

Physician bills $200,000. Physician pays $50,000 to the administrative assistant and another $30,000 (made up figure) for remaining overhead costs such as rent, supplies etc. That leaves him/her with only $120,000. That number doesn't look so good, especially if the physician has to pay tax on the original gross billing amount of 200,000 rather than the 120k.

 

How does it work exactly?

 

Is that really how much it costs for admin assistant? Just curious

 

and I think your 200,000 estimate is too low, and as AdreaM pointed out you woudl only pay tax on the actual end income. There is such a thing as business tax but you would have to leave money in the business for that to apply. On paper the business you described has no profit as expenses, which include your salary, would equal revenue. No profit, no business tax.