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Which Australian school provides the best opportunities to match into residency in Canada/US?


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I'm currently applying through OzTREKK after two unsuccessful cycles. I have a 511 MCAT and 3.6 cGPA, with last 3 years around a 3.98. I interviewed last year at Western but this year got zero invites. COVID has really increased the competitiveness of applications across the board. Unfortunately, my first two years really killed my cGPA and left me with little chance of getting into Canadian schools other than a select few. 

Basically I want to ultimately return to Canada or at least the US and am aware of the risks involved. I just wanted to hear from anyone that knows of the opportunities and support available at different schools.

I have a friend at Griffith who is loving the experience, but there is only one elective that can be taken overseas, and a selective that I am unsure about whether it can be taken overseas. But it is the least expensive option and has brand new facilities.

I am considering Flinders as they include two 6 week electives, but am concerned about the internship situation in South Australia if I decided/had to stay in Australia.

I see Sydney offers a core and two electives but is very expensive, and have seen negative posts, albeit without details, from previous Canadians studying there.

Melbourne looks great and has updated their curriculum but is too expensive.

UQ has implemented two new prerequisites that I may not be able to meet with my previous courses, and seems at first glance to provide the most support to North American students but has very large class sizes and mixed reviews.

I have also considered Ireland as they seem to all provide support for North American students but the lack of backup for postgrad training has steered me away.

Any input or advice is appreciated.

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My current plan is to apply to Australia, and apply to Canada and US again, if I were to get into Aus and be 4 months into the program and then get accepted into Canada in May 2022 I would be okay with the loss of money of first year tuition and be happy to restart med in Canada in fall 2022. I would even consider deferring an Aus acceptance so as to have a potential 4th cycle of applying in Canada.

I'm already 25, took a 5th year of undergrad to up my cGPA and am not considering a second undergrad. 

 

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1 hour ago, premedmillenial said:

I'm currently applying through OzTREKK after two unsuccessful cycles. I have a 511 MCAT and 3.6 cGPA, with last 3 years around a 3.98. I interviewed last year at Western but this year got zero invites. COVID has really increased the competitiveness of applications across the board. Unfortunately, my first two years really killed my cGPA and left me with little chance of getting into Canadian schools other than a select few. 

Basically I want to ultimately return to Canada or at least the US and am aware of the risks involved. I just wanted to hear from anyone that knows of the opportunities and support available at different schools.

I have a friend at Griffith who is loving the experience, but there is only one elective that can be taken overseas, and a selective that I am unsure about whether it can be taken overseas. But it is the least expensive option and has brand new facilities.

I am considering Flinders as they include two 6 week electives, but am concerned about the internship situation in South Australia if I decided/had to stay in Australia.

I see Sydney offers a core and two electives but is very expensive, and have seen negative posts, albeit without details, from previous Canadians studying there.

Melbourne looks great and has updated their curriculum but is too expensive.

UQ has implemented two new prerequisites that I may not be able to meet with my previous courses, and seems at first glance to provide the most support to North American students but has very large class sizes and mixed reviews.

I have also considered Ireland as they seem to all provide support for North American students but the lack of backup for postgrad training has steered me away.

Any input or advice is appreciated.

Apply to USMD and USDO before considering australia and ireland.

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24 minutes ago, premedmillenial said:

I applied to 5 USDO and 12 or so MD. Will reapply selectively in the states next cycle

Any specific reason you didn't apply to more US programs? And why would you "reapply selectively" next cycle? 

You should have applied as broadly as possible the first time...but since you didn't, you definitely should apply very broadly the 2nd time (im assuming you didnt get interviews this year in the US? or did you get interviews and just still waiting on potential accepts/rejects/waitlist?). 

There is no sense applying if you're not going to give it your best shot. Seems strange, but yet considering Australia/Ireland..when you're most likely best case outcome is you end up in the US for residency...rather than just going to the US in the first place for medical school and get on with it.

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16 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Any specific reason you didn't apply to more US programs? And why would you "reapply selectively" next cycle? 

You should have applied as broadly as possible the first time...but since you didn't, you definitely should apply very broadly the 2nd time (im assuming you didnt get interviews this year in the US? or did you get interviews and just still waiting on potential accepts/rejects/waitlist?). 

There is no sense applying if you're not going to give it your best shot. Seems strange, but yet considering Australia/Ireland..when you're most likely best case outcome is you end up in the US for residency...rather than just going to the US in the first place for medical school and get on with it.

 I simply do not have the money on hand to apply to 30 US schools plus 10 Canadian and then international. I applied to the US schools that were deemed "Canadian-friendly". Many if not most of the US schools take a select few international students making it extremely competitive. 

I would happily go to school in the states, MD or DO, but many schools also required courses that would take me another year of undergrad to complete. 

Re: @bearded frog I applied to all of the michigan schools, UNECOM, GW, TULANE, western UCOMP, Jefferson, KCUMB to name a few. I can't remember the others off the top of my head. 

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1 hour ago, premedmillenial said:

 I simply do not have the money on hand to apply to 30 US schools plus 10 Canadian and then international. I applied to the US schools that were deemed "Canadian-friendly". Many if not most of the US schools take a select few international students making it extremely competitive. 

I would happily go to school in the states, MD or DO, but many schools also required courses that would take me another year of undergrad to complete. 

Re: @bearded frog I applied to all of the michigan schools, UNECOM, GW, TULANE, western UCOMP, Jefferson, KCUMB to name a few. I can't remember the others off the top of my head. 

So you'd rather not spend an extra 1000$ to apply to schools...that are mostly doing virtual interviews this year....and instead spend 400k for the medical degree that objectively has less match stats in ireland/australia.

That doesn't make much sense does it?

If your USDO list was broader, you probably could have gotten more interviews and not have to re-spend another few 1000$ on reapplying next year. 

Your mistake was not applying broadly...(you now say you applied to 30 US schools...but just a post ago you said 5 +12 = 17...which is it?)

"but many schools also required courses that would take me another year of undergrad to complete. "

So instead of just doing a couple extra courses (how many courses are we talking? Can't be many if you were still eligible to apply to the schools you listed)...your'e going to have to reapply again next year. Did you at least spend some time this year addressing these deficiencies? You also do not need to have them completed to APPLY but you need the few missing ones prior to MATRICULATION. Big difference! So if you're only missing 1-3 courses, and the rest is in line, and a good MCAT...that isn't a deal breaker.

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From anecdotal evidence Ireland also offers good options for matching back to USA for residency. I don't know if there is certain "prestige" factor associated with European schools with a long history, or that maybe certain parts of USA where a lot of Irish descendants live might have unconscious bias for that. Canada is tough for any IMG, so you might as well focus on the USA route. 

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3 hours ago, premedmillenial said:

I'm currently applying through OzTREKK after two unsuccessful cycles. I have a 511 MCAT and 3.6 cGPA, with last 3 years around a 3.98. I interviewed last year at Western but this year got zero invites. COVID has really increased the competitiveness of applications across the board. Unfortunately, my first two years really killed my cGPA and left me with little chance of getting into Canadian schools other than a select few. 

Basically I want to ultimately return to Canada or at least the US and am aware of the risks involved. I just wanted to hear from anyone that knows of the opportunities and support available at different schools.

I have a friend at Griffith who is loving the experience, but there is only one elective that can be taken overseas, and a selective that I am unsure about whether it can be taken overseas. But it is the least expensive option and has brand new facilities.

I am considering Flinders as they include two 6 week electives, but am concerned about the internship situation in South Australia if I decided/had to stay in Australia.

I see Sydney offers a core and two electives but is very expensive, and have seen negative posts, albeit without details, from previous Canadians studying there.

Melbourne looks great and has updated their curriculum but is too expensive.

UQ has implemented two new prerequisites that I may not be able to meet with my previous courses, and seems at first glance to provide the most support to North American students but has very large class sizes and mixed reviews.

I have also considered Ireland as they seem to all provide support for North American students but the lack of backup for postgrad training has steered me away.

Any input or advice is appreciated.

I am literally in the same scenario as you. I'm thinking of applying through OzTrekk for Jan 2022 start and hoping to come back to Canada primarily, and if not that, then the States. I don't have the time nor the money that I can apply another year here. 

You've literally described everything I've gone through. This is my 3rd cycle so far with a 3.92 GPA and a 517 MCAT. I haven't gotten any interviews from Canadian schools and also applied to US MD schools. Unfortunately, I just haven't received invites despite trying so hard. 

I would be open to talking with you and seeing what options you have. It would be helpful to speak and communicate with someone in a similar situation as me.

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2 minutes ago, shikimate said:

From anecdotal evidence Ireland also offers good options for matching back to USA for residency. I don't know if there is certain "prestige" factor associated with European schools with a long history, or that maybe certain parts of USA where a lot of Irish descendants live might have unconscious bias for that. Canada is tough for any IMG, so you might as well focus on the USA route. 

Would you say this applies only to Irish and European schools or also Australian schools? A few ranked in the top 20 worldwide, much better than a lot of Ontario medical schools. Obviously, getting into Ontario or Canadian schools would be the goal, but it doesn't seem so.

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Just now, Chocolatelover said:

I am literally in the same scenario as you. I'm thinking of applying through OzTrekk for Jan 2022 start and hoping to come back to Canada primarily, and if not that, then the States. I don't have the time nor the money that I can apply another year here. 

You've literally described everything I've gone through. This is my 3rd cycle so far with a 3.92 GPA and a 517 MCAT. I haven't gotten any interviews from Canadian schools and also applied to US MD schools. Unfortunately, I just haven't received invites despite trying so hard. 

I would be open to talking with you and seeing what options you have. It would be helpful to speak and communicate with someone in a similar situation as me.

With a 3.92 GPA and a 517 MCAT - you're not applying to the right US schools if you're not even being interviewed, in conjunction with poor non-academics/lacklustre personal statement. Especailly if its been more than 1 cycle for the US.    You would be a 2nd year medical student already if you applied to USDO.

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Just now, Chocolatelover said:

Would you say this applies only to Irish and European schools or also Australian schools? A few ranked in the top 20 worldwide, much better than a lot of Ontario medical schools. Obviously, getting into Ontario or Canadian schools would be the goal, but it doesn't seem so.

World rankings don't matter for Canada, its IMG or Not.    For the US, its about affiliations to secure US rotations which the irish and some australian schools have. Face time, and strong board scores.

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For Americans, Australia is a foreign concept, a far away land with big weird insects and animals. Not many Americans move to Australia and not many Australians move to USA.

Ireland is of course different, there are so many people of Irish descends in USA (particularly Eastern seaboard) that its narrative association probably creates a good vibe for many Americans (remember Peter Griffin is Irish). The key is to use your spare time and elective time to find that connection in USA to build relationships. So it would make sense you focus in the New England area for that.

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8 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

So you'd rather not spend an extra 1000$ to apply to schools...that are mostly doing virtual interviews this year....and instead spend 400k for the medical degree that objectively has less match stats in ireland/australia.

That doesn't make much sense does it?

If your USDO list was broader, you probably could have gotten more interviews and not have to re-spend another few 1000$ on reapplying next year. 

Your mistake was not applying broadly...(you now say you applied to 30 US schools...but just a post ago you said 5 +12 = 17...which is it?)

"but many schools also required courses that would take me another year of undergrad to complete. "

So instead of just doing a couple extra courses (how many courses are we talking? Can't be many if you were still eligible to apply to the schools you listed)...your'e going to have to reapply again next year. Did you at least spend some time this year addressing these deficiencies? You also do not need to have them completed to APPLY but you need the few missing ones prior to MATRICULATION. Big difference! So if you're only missing 1-3 courses, and the rest is in line, and a good MCAT...that isn't a deal breaker.

I understand what you're saying regarding the money, but to me, getting a loan because I'm enrolled in med, is different from getting a loan just to apply to med. 

I said that I don't have the money to apply to 30 US schools + 10 Canadian next year. Maybe I wasn't clear but I applied to about 17-20 US schools this year + almost every Canadian school, honestly don't recall the exact number. My point was that this cycle ate up most of my savings, so I cannot afford to broaden my applications even further. 

Regarding courses, I am about 5 short for most programs. I applied and listed that I was going to enrol in them. I would still be willing to enrol in them if I got interviews offers. I am more than happy to enrol in Athabasca online, for example, if given an interview at any of these schools. 

I get your points though

 

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13 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

With a 3.92 GPA and a 517 MCAT - you're not applying to the right US schools if you're not even being interviewed, in conjunction with poor non-academics/lacklustre personal statement. Especailly if its been more than 1 cycle for the US.    You would be a 2nd year medical student already if you applied to USDO.

Pretty crazy that with those stats you've not received any interviews. The situation in Canada is ridiculously competitive. I would definitely recommend you check out MSUCOM and other DO schools. A USDO degree is a much more certain path than going international. Feel free to message me if you'd like to chat. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

With a 3.92 GPA and a 517 MCAT - you're not applying to the right US schools if you're not even being interviewed, in conjunction with poor non-academics/lacklustre personal statement. Especailly if its been more than 1 cycle for the US.    You would be a 2nd year medical student already if you applied to USDO.

Yeah, I did only apply to 4 US MD schools that were "Canadian-Friendly", so it makes sense that I should apply more broadly. However, I really have no zero shadowing experience since I found it extremely hard to find shadowing here in Canada. My clinical experience is also a little weak. I was hoping to work on these few things, but with the pandemic, I haven't been able to get any shadowing or clinical opportunities. 

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2 minutes ago, premedmillenial said:

 

Pretty crazy that with those stats you've not received any interviews. The situation in Canada is ridiculously competitive. I would definitely recommend you check out MSUCOM and other DO schools. A USDO degree is a much more certain path than going international. Feel free to message me if you'd like to chat. 

I thought about the DO path, but they usually require a reference letter from DO physicians. I don't really know any to begin and I also don't know if coming back to Canada as a DO is reasonable. Are we not an IMG, and also is being DO considered less competitive since Canada only has MDs. 

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1 minute ago, Chocolatelover said:

I thought about the DO path, but they usually require a reference letter from DO physicians. I don't really know any to begin and I also don't know if coming back to Canada as a DO is reasonable. Are we not an IMG, and also is being DO considered less competitive since Canada only has MDs. 

Most schools no longer require a DO letter, plus, I believe BC still considers DO's as equivalent to CMG's, but I could be wrong.

Still the benefit of DO is a near guarantee you get at least a US residency. Then you can come back to Canada (after jumping through hoops) as a fully trained physician. 

 

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15 hours ago, premedmillenial said:

I understand what you're saying regarding the money, but to me, getting a loan because I'm enrolled in med, is different from getting a loan just to apply to med. 

I said that I don't have the money to apply to 30 US schools + 10 Canadian next year. Maybe I wasn't clear but I applied to about 17-20 US schools this year + almost every Canadian school, honestly don't recall the exact number. My point was that this cycle ate up most of my savings, so I cannot afford to broaden my applications even further. 

Regarding courses, I am about 5 short for most programs. I applied and listed that I was going to enrol in them. I would still be willing to enrol in them if I got interviews offers. I am more than happy to enrol in Athabasca online, for example, if given an interview at any of these schools. 

I get your points though

 

Im very confused, you are saying you didn't apply more broadly...to secure yourself an acceptance....and ultimately save money in application fees and wasted time...because you couldn't afford to submit more applications? If this is factually true - then i think you need to do more research and cut your losses: It is very unlikely that Govt and Bank loans alone will cover your full-cost of attendance at a foreign medical school. What is suddenly going to change about financial situation should you even be accepted then, where is the difference in money going to appear from? If its parental support or a rich uncle...then you should be getting them to give you the money upfront to be able to apply to more DO programs so you could get an acceptance.

Not trying to be harsh, just shine a bit of reality on the situation!  

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1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said:

Im very confused, you are saying you didn't apply more broadly...to secure yourself an acceptance....and ultimately save money in application fees and wasted time...because you couldn't afford to submit more applications? If this is factually true - then i think you need to do more research and cut your losses: It is very unlikely that Govt and Bank loans alone will cover your full-cost of attendance at a foreign medical school. What is suddenly going to change about financial situation should you even be accepted then, where is the difference in money going to appear from? If its parental support or a rich uncle...then you should be getting them to give you the money upfront to be able to apply to more DO programs so you could get an acceptance.

Not trying to be harsh, just shine a bit of reality on the situation!  

TD bank in Canada offers 325k LOC for foreign medical schools i.e. ireland/australia

OSAP offers 50k loan for Ontarians going to med in Australia also.

This is what would fund my studies abroad, along with some part time work while studying.

My point is that no, I do not have money on hand right now to apply very broadly, even if it is necessary. However, if I were accepted to Australia med, the loan and LOC I mentioned above would become available and would be used. That's all I was saying. 

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