How To Keep Going?

[thehulk]

I am a third time applicant, gpa ~3.9 and MCAT 34. Applied to 16 US schools this year and 5 Canadian schools. Already rejected or put on hold for 10 US schools and rejected from 2 Canadian (Dalhousie, Memorial). I have good ECs, 2+ years of research (no publication yet but solid research), lots of social justice and environmental volunteering, diverse background, have worked 4 great jobs, started my own campus group, worked in 3 different labs, and more. I am really giving up hope now, I feel so depressed everyday. I come back from work and just want to forget about my life and not think about anything. I have worked hard on applications. I do not have the willpower or money to apply to US or canadian med schools again and although I have always been extremely against going outside US/canada for medicine, I am not considering Ireland med schools now. I cannot stay idle another year hoping and praying for something. 

 

I really don't know what to do or how to keep going. I don't even know why I am making this post. UGH.

[Med30s]

Hey thehulk,

 

Sorry to hear you're feeling frustrated - I know the feeling. I was accepted on my fourth application cycle. Have you tried meeting with admissions for insight? Memorial allows unsuccessful applicants to make an appointment for feedback on how to improve their application (not sure which other schools offer this). Which province are you from? OOP/International pools are always more competitive, so while a 3.9 GPA and 34 MCAT are impressive, they are probably average for these competitions.

 

I wish I could say something that didn't sound so cliche, but honestly, keep your head up. If it's your dream, you'll get there. You just have to be persistent. The road to a medical degree does not look the same for everyone.

[MF1-5]

I am a third time applicant, gpa ~3.9 and MCAT 34. Applied to 16 US schools this year and 5 Canadian schools. Already rejected or put on hold for 10 US schools and rejected from 2 Canadian (Dalhousie, Memorial). I have good ECs, 2+ years of research (no publication yet but solid research), lots of social justice and environmental volunteering, diverse background, have worked 4 great jobs, started my own campus group, worked in 3 different labs, and more. I am really giving up hope now, I feel so depressed everyday. I come back from work and just want to forget about my life and not think about anything. I have worked hard on applications (interviewed at Dalhousie last year but waitlisted and then rejected). I do not have the willpower or money to apply to US or canadian med schools again and although I have always been extremely against going outside US/canada for medicine, I am not considering Ireland med schools now. I cannot stay idle another year hoping and praying for something. 

 

I really don't know what to do or how to keep going. I don't even know why I am making this post. UGH.

 

You have amazing stats so I'm really sorry to hear about your struggles.   Were you rejected from the US schools pre or post interview?  Have you critiqued your application for red flags? Your stats are awesome so I'm thinking there may be something in your application ..... I was also a re-applicant and what made the difference for me was getting professional help with my applications when I reapplied.  Might be something worth considering.   

 

I'm a 2nd year at Mac now so don't give up and good luck   

[summergirl]

Those are very very impressive stats and I'm surprised you haven't had luck getting in after trying three times. Have you interviewed anywhere else besides Dal in your three cycles? 

I have a <3.5cGPA with upward trend and a 37 MCAT, and I was able to get 2 interviews from the 16 US schools I've applied to this year. You should have gotten at least 3-4 interviews from US schools if you applied to 16 schools with those stats. Don't know what to tell you, but did you perhaps only applied to top schools like Yale and Harvard? Is there a red flag in your app? Did you not have any clinical experience? These things could have tanked you for US MD

[thethirdlaw]

Oh I feel you. I'm trying to write up my McGill essays and all I can think is what am I even doing anymore. But take it this way, once you get in (and you will), the resilience will pay dividends over the next four years.

[JohnGrisham]

4thtimes the charm then? and really assess your application from a 3rd person perspective(ask people you know whom can be critical).

Did you apply as a 3rd year applicant, then a 4th year applicant and then as a gap year applicant? If so, then it isn't so bad as you think in terms of waiting around "idle" etc.

Don't give up, and don't jump ship yet.

At the very least you can apply to USDO schools and be better off than foreign schools. 

 

You can do it.

[thehulk]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. I really dont think I can mentally go through another application cycle after this one. I don't have any red flags in my application, I interviewed at one US school last year and was waitlisted at Dalhousie so I thought I was doing something right and I improved my application this year with a 4.0 4th year gpa, more ECs and better essay.

 

this year I was rejected by 10 US schools pre-interview, and I have had 0 interviews so far. No idea what happened, I applied early as well, spent so much time into each secondary. 

 

I dont like sitting around working a job where my skills or degree dont even matter. I am still doing research so that keeps me going. It would suck to wait another year and still end up having to go outside for medicine.

[JohnGrisham]

What was your USMD list?

[JohnGrisham]

And I'm assuming this is your first gap year after doing a 4yr degree? If so, take a breath and relax. You really have only had 2 applications so far. That first application as a 3rd year didn't really count...since that was a longshot anyways.

 

If you for sure want to be somewhere in this August 2016, then apply to 4-5 USDO schools right now. Would be very surprised if you didn't get at least 2 interviews in January. If not more and an acceptance..

[thehulk]

What was your USMD list?

 

Wayne State

Rosalind Franklin

Penn State

Virginia- rejected

George Washington- hold

Georgetown- rejected

Columbia (reach but why not)

Mayo (reach but why not)- rejected post LOR

Darmouth

Albert Einstein

SUNY Upstate- hold

NY medical college- hold

Saint Louis

Case Western-rejected

Oakland- rejected

BostonU- rejected

UKentucky- hold

 

 

And I'm assuming this is your first gap year after doing a 4yr degree? If so, take a breath and relax. You really have only had 2 applications so far. That first application as a 3rd year didn't really count...since that was a longshot anyways.

 

If you for sure want to be somewhere in this August 2016, then apply to 4-5 USDO schools right now. Would be very surprised if you didn't get at least 2 interviews in January. If not more and an acceptance..

 

Yes this is my first gap year. Dont you think it is too late for USDO? Or should I still try?

[JohnGrisham]

Wayne State

Rosalind Franklin

Penn State

Virginia- rejected

George Washington- hold

Georgetown- rejected

Columbia (reach but why not)

Mayo (reach but why not)- rejected post LOR

Darmouth

Albert Einstein

SUNY Upstate- hold

NY medical college- hold

Saint Louis

Case Western-rejected

Oakland- rejected

BostonU- rejected

UKentucky- hold

 

 

 

Yes this is my first gap year. Dont you think it is too late for USDO? Or should I still try?

So nothing from RFU, Wayne?

 

I would have added MSU-CHM, but too late. Interesting about your rejections though... what was the school you had applied before and interviewed at?

 

And no, i dont think its late at all with someone with your stats. Get the primary application in this week, and get the verification process started.  Apply to the Canadian friendly ones, and I can almost guarantee you'll get at least 2 interviews. Weather or not you get an acceptance will be based on your interviewing skills. Even then, some have pretty big classes..so waitlists will move. 

 

 

[JohnGrisham]

I'd also say for USMD schools, it can be pretty hit or miss - since many of the schools you applied to are upper tier or strong schools that get a lot of applicants. Statistics and all that.

I would inquire about the holds and see if there's anything they want/need or would like to see.

[_ _]

Like people have mentioned, if you applied in 3rd/4th year and are just 1 year out now that's very normal. A lot of people do undergrad+2 year masters which is a year behind were you are now even. 

I read somewhere that the average med student in Canada applies 2.7 times before getting in. Average. So more than that is totally normal

[3change]

..

[thehulk]

I think you'll get some interviews in Canada.

 

As for US:

Did you improve your application since last year? They don't like reapplicants.

 

How many times did you take the MCAT?

 

Were your recommendations good? Did you ask your boss to write you one(could be bad because of conflict of interest)? Depends on the nature of the work you are doing.

 

Yea I improved my gpa, increased my ECs, started another research project. Took the MCAT 3 times: 29, 32, 34

 

I had my research supervisor, a physician who i previously worked with, a biology professor, coordinator of a social justice organization, a co-supervisor. I just started working here in September so I couldn't ask my current supervisor for one. 

[GrouchoMarx]

dont give up. dont go the fmg way. just keep trying.

[GH0ST]

I am a third time applicant, gpa ~3.9 and MCAT 34. Applied to 16 US schools this year and 5 Canadian schools. Already rejected or put on hold for 10 US schools and rejected from 2 Canadian (Dalhousie, Memorial). I have good ECs, 2+ years of research (no publication yet but solid research), lots of social justice and environmental volunteering, diverse background, have worked 4 great jobs, started my own campus group, worked in 3 different labs, and more. I am really giving up hope now, I feel so depressed everyday. I come back from work and just want to forget about my life and not think about anything. I have worked hard on applications (interviewed at Dalhousie last year but waitlisted and then rejected). I do not have the willpower or money to apply to US or canadian med schools again and although I have always been extremely against going outside US/canada for medicine, I am not considering Ireland med schools now. I cannot stay idle another year hoping and praying for something. 

 

I really don't know what to do or how to keep going. I don't even know why I am making this post. UGH.

 

I'm always skeptical when I read stuff like this, because something that appears good to you may not be the same for others. My point is if you looked at everything you did objectively from a third party lens... is it just as impressive? This isn't to discredit what you've done, but it's also important to be critical of your experiences.

 

To me, you have other problems to worry about apart from applying to medical school. I feel that your emotional well-being is incredibly fragile and you need to work on yourself first before worrying about medical school. Getting into medical school doesn't immediately make your life better... find some time to yourself, pursue your passions and hopefully you'll find some happiness in your life that isn't defined by an acceptance letter.

 

I did a master of public health where I didn't apply right away. I can't tell you how good it felt to not feel like I'm pressured to get in.

 

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. I really dont think I can mentally go through another application cycle after this one. I don't have any red flags in my application, I interviewed at one US school last year and was waitlisted at Dalhousie so I thought I was doing something right and I improved my application this year with a 4.0 4th year gpa, more ECs and better essay.

 

this year I was rejected by 10 US schools pre-interview, and I have had 0 interviews so far. No idea what happened, I applied early as well, spent so much time into each secondary. 

 

I dont like sitting around working a job where my skills or degree dont even matter. I am still doing research so that keeps me going. It would suck to wait another year and still end up having to go outside for medicine.

 

First of all you have a life outside of medical school... don't stop living your life just because of a potential for poor news. Try new things, meet people, work on improving yourself how you see fit. Regardless of getting into medical school or not, if you want to do well you'll have to work hard in earnest.

 

Canadians on average does have a difficult time applying to the US for a number of factors, most of which pertains to this logic ... if I can find an American with similar stats, why settle for a Canadian? This is why to apply to even lower tier schools, you have to be more impressive.

 

That said, you got interviews in the past, which means you have the potential... to me its your interview skills that may need more work.

 

I've made numerous threads about this in the context of MMIs, but "being yourself" is not sufficient to succeed. I could put a 12 year old in the interview and they can be themselves... doesn't mean a PD will want them for a doctor. Just like the MMI and application, you got to show them what you bring to the table and how your experiences contribute to your success in medical school if accepted.

 

With that said (and please don't take this the wrong way), people like you and me are a dime a dozen... there's tens, maybe even hundreds of people out there with similar or better stats that have tried numerous times (I didn't succeed my first time either). You have hope (I mean you got to an interview whereas most people are stuck trying to get one). There are those that have applied upwards of 10 times or changed careers and they still keep going (and I bet these people are just as worn out, if not more) . If this is truly what you want to do for the benefit of the patients, then you'll need to find the strength within yourself to get back up, which may include sacrificing more time.

 

Wayne State

Rosalind Franklin

Penn State

Virginia- rejected

George Washington- hold

Georgetown- rejected

Columbia (reach but why not)

Mayo (reach but why not)- rejected post LOR

Darmouth

Albert Einstein

SUNY Upstate- hold

NY medical college- hold

Saint Louis

Case Western-rejected

Oakland- rejected

BostonU- rejected

UKentucky- hold

 

 

 

Yes this is my first gap year. Dont you think it is too late for USDO? Or should I still try?

 

This list overall is above average in tier and it's unclear how many internationals they take... you may have been rejected based on statistics... if hundreds of people have your mindset, a lot of people will be disappointed no matter how you look at the situation.

 

Yea I improved my gpa, increased my ECs, started another research project. Took the MCAT 3 times: 29, 32, 34

 

I had my research supervisor, a physician who i previously worked with, a biology professor, coordinator of a social justice organization, a co-supervisor. I just started working here in September so I couldn't ask my current supervisor for one. 

 

When applying to the US, writing the MCAT multiple times counts against you, even if you show marginal improvement. To the PDs, they'd rather have someone who got 34 the first time, compared to someone who did it after 3 tries etc... Some schools average your takes (~31-32 for you) ... either way it's better to be conservative with your MCAT (think your score as ~31 instead of 34).

 

 

 

Overall, it's not over for you, but you definitely need tenacity to stay in it. Whether you rely on your friends, family, or institutions, find it within yourself to continue living life outside of thinking about medical school.

 

- G

[NotASerialKiller]

double post

[NotASerialKiller]

I'm always skeptical when I read stuff like this, because something that appears good to you may not be the same for others. My point is if you looked at everything you did objectively from a third party lens... is it just as impressive? This isn't to discredit what you've done, but it's also important to be critical of your experiences.

 

To me, you have other problems to worry about apart from applying to medical school. I feel that your emotional well-being is incredibly fragile and you need to work on yourself first before worrying about medical school. Getting into medical school doesn't immediately make your life better... find some time to yourself, pursue your passions and hopefully you'll find some happiness in your life that isn't defined by an acceptance letter.

 

I did a master of public health where I didn't apply right away. I can't tell you how good it felt to not feel like I'm pressured to get in.

 

 

First of all you have a life outside of medical school... don't stop living your life just because of a potential for poor news. Try new things, meet people, work on improving yourself how you see fit. Regardless of getting into medical school or not, if you want to do well you'll have to work hard in earnest.

 

Canadians on average does have a difficult time applying to the US for a number of factors, most of which pertains to this logic ... if I can find an American with similar stats, why settle for a Canadian? This is why to apply to even lower tier schools, you have to be more impressive.

 

That said, you got interviews in the past, which means you have the potential... to me its your interview skills that may need more work.

 

I've made numerous threads about this in the context of MMIs, but "being yourself" is not sufficient to succeed. I could put a 12 year old in the interview and they can be themselves... doesn't mean a PD will want them for a doctor. Just like the MMI and application, you got to show them what you bring to the table and how your experiences contribute to your success in medical school if accepted.

 

With that said (and please don't take this the wrong way), people like you and me are a dime a dozen... there's tens, maybe even hundreds of people out there with similar or better stats that have tried numerous times (I didn't succeed my first time either). You have hope (I mean you got to an interview whereas most people are stuck trying to get one). There are those that have applied upwards of 10 times or changed careers and they still keep going (and I bet these people are just as worn out, if not more) . If this is truly what you want to do for the benefit of the patients, then you'll need to find the strength within yourself to get back up, which may include sacrificing more time.

 

 

This list overall is above average in tier and it's unclear how many internationals they take... you may have been rejected based on statistics... if hundreds of people have your mindset, a lot of people will be disappointed no matter how you look at the situation.

 

 

When applying to the US, writing the MCAT multiple times counts against you, even if you show marginal improvement. To the PDs, they'd rather have someone who got 34 the first time, compared to someone who did it after 3 tries etc... Some schools average your takes (~31-32 for you) ... either way it's better to be conservative with your MCAT (think your score as ~31 instead of 34).

 

 

 

Overall, it's not over for you, but you definitely need tenacity to stay in it. Whether you rely on your friends, family, or institutions, find it within yourself to continue living life outside of thinking about medical school.

 

- G

 

In reference to the school list it's pretty standard for Canadians. Most of those schools are ones that do take a high number of internationals (relatively speaking) according to the MSAR. Columbia and Mayo are the only ones that I might have said don't bother. Do you know of any "low tier" schools that actually matriculate internationals? I certainly don't know many that would fit the bill. That's one of the issues that Canadians face when applying to the US, all the ones I know that have had success or at least interviews have been at schools on this list

[JohnGrisham]

In reference to the school list it's pretty standard for Canadians. Most of those schools are ones that do take a high number of internationals (relatively speaking) according to the MSAR. Columbia and Mayo are the only ones that I might have said don't bother. Do you know of any "low tier" schools that actually matriculate internationals? I certainly don't know many that would fit the bill. That's one of the issues that Canadians face when applying to the US, all the ones I know that have had success or at least interviews have been at schools on this list

MSU-CHM would have been another decent pick for a Canadian, and Meharry as well(they've taken Canadians in the past at least). You are correct though, tough battle.

[NotASerialKiller]

MSU-CHM would have been another decent pick for a Canadian, and Meharry as well(they've taken Canadians in the past at least). You are correct though, tough battle.

 

Meharry is a long-shot if you're not black or from a disadvantaged background. It's one of the very mission driven schools

[davisfenos]

Wayne State

Rosalind Franklin

Penn State

Virginia- rejected

George Washington- hold

Georgetown- rejected

Columbia (reach but why not)

Mayo (reach but why not)- rejected post LOR

Darmouth

Albert Einstein

SUNY Upstate- hold

NY medical college- hold

Saint Louis

Case Western-rejected

Oakland- rejected

BostonU- rejected

UKentucky- hold

 

 

 

Yes this is my first gap year. Dont you think it is too late for USDO? Or should I still try?

 

Mind if I ask when you were complete? I applied to plenty of the same schools in the states as you with somewhat similar (lower GPA, higher MCAT) stats, and I haven't heard anything at all.

 

My AMCAS processing was complete August 21, for reference.

[JohnGrisham]

Meharry is a long-shot if you're not black or from a disadvantaged background. It's one of the very mission driven schools

Well, i know two very caucasian people who interviewed and were accepted there - so not sure if that is of statistical significance, but they did have volunteer work with underprivileged communities(not african though). So it is possible if you are strong in the ECs department and show a genuine track record for underprivileged communities. Doesn't have to be in the specific community or mission to the T, to fit a schools general mission. 

[NotASerialKiller]

Well, i know two very caucasian people who interviewed and were accepted there - so not sure if that is of statistical significance, but they did have volunteer work with underprivileged communities(not african though). So it is possible if you are strong in the ECs department and show a genuine track record for underprivileged communities. Doesn't have to be in the specific community or mission to the T, to fit a schools general mission. 

 

No, it just makes it that much harder, which counteracts the benefit of them being amenable toward internationals. I was really just parroting what I've seen on SDN, even for Americans they recommend not bothering with Meharry if you don't have extensive experience serving underprivileged communities (more than just volunteering in a soup kitchen for a while). I'm guess those people either had a CV convincingly showing that they were committed to that, or just got really lucky.

[robclem21]

Not sure if I missed it but what province are you from? As others have mentioned, IP applications will make you much more competitive. Some extra things to consider that weren't mentioned in your initial post:

 

How are your reference letters? I know at UofT these are worth >20% of the pre-interview score. Some small things like this on the application cycle that seem unimportant or like "flags" could actually make or break your application. I would really consider who you are getting references from.

 

Are you willing to move for a year or two before your next application. I know its easy to keep submitting year after year, but sometimes a different approach will help. If you can gain in proving status out east or out west that will likely give you the bump you need to get in.

 

How are you coming across in your essays? Interviews? When people have good stats, often there is a problem with how they are portaying themselves to others. I would critically evaluate how you present your application. You have intereviewed before so written skills may not be the problem....Have you worked on improving your interview skills since the last round? There is still lots of time for Ontario schools so I wouldn't wait until the last minute to prepare. Sitting at home in despair when you still have a good chance is a self-fulfilling prophecy waiting to happen.