Doing A Masters During Medical School

[CXR 45]

I know some people complete a Masters program before graduating from medical school, what is the process for that? Is it before/after clerkship? Can it be done at a different school? Can it be an MSc? 

[Snowmen 587]

At my school, it is usually done between the preclinical years and clerkship. It can be many different degrees like an MSc, an MPH or even an MBA. Finally, they allow you to complete it at a different school as long as an agreement can be reached.

[rmorelan 2,561]

At my school, it is usually done between the preclinical years and clerkship. It can be many different degrees like an MSc, an MPH or even an MBA. Finally, they allow you to complete it at a different school as long as an agreement can be reached.

 

that is not dissimilar to other schools I have heard from. Also some people take it after medical school as well prior to applying to CARMS. 

[PurpleS 121]

I know some people complete a Masters program before graduating from medical school, what is the process for that? Is it before/after clerkship? Can it be done at a different school? Can it be an MSc? 

 

At Mac, you can complete it through our enrichment year program which most people take between pre-clerk and clerkship.  You can also complete clinical electives during this period.

[bentobox1234 4]

Some people do it through the LEAD program and it looks amazing on your CV. 

[Bambi 1,698]

And some do it through a distance ed program during residency.

[rmorelan 2,561]

And some do it through a distance ed program during residency.

Yup - I am actually  

 

(side note - having internet on planes is just completely awesome. We live in amazing times). 

[Economist 25]

Yup - I am actually

 

(side note - having internet on planes is just completely awesome. We live in amazing times). 

How can one complete a masters during residency? How do you find the time to do it? And which school do people get these distance ed masters from?

[rmorelan 2,561]

How can one complete a masters during residency? How do you find the time to do it? And which school do people get these distance ed masters from?

 

for me is in education. 

 

Finding time is like anything else - you have to sacrifice something. A course takes about 10 hours a week. We have vacation time and professional development time as well. Not easy of course. 

[Med Life Crisis 16]

On 3/6/2017 at 5:22 PM, Snowmen said:

At my school, it is usually done between the preclinical years and clerkship. It can be many different degrees like an MSc, an MPH or even an MBA. Finally, they allow you to complete it at a different school as long as an agreement can be reached.

Do they really let us do an MBA? I never heard of Sherbrooke talking about an MD-MBA 

[nice 77]

.

[Snowmen 587]

On 04/02/2018 at 8:03 AM, Med Life Crisis said:

Do they really let us do an MBA? I never heard of Sherbrooke talking about an MD-MBA 

Anything somewhat medicine (or admin for the MBA) related is possible as long as you can reach an agreement with the faculty.

[distressedpremed 96]

On 3/11/2017 at 8:25 AM, rmorelan said:

 

for me is in education. 

 

Finding time is like anything else - you have to sacrifice something. A course takes about 10 hours a week. We have vacation time and professional development time as well. Not easy of course. 

Hey R,

I would like to do one through distance ed...not sure if I can take time off during my actual residency since the call is shared through a very small number of residents (and you don't want to be the one guy making everyone take more call while you're away)...

Which one are you doing? I'm looking at some data science or education ones. PM if you want  to discuss more privately! Thanks 

[insomnias 130]

On 3/11/2017 at 2:25 PM, rmorelan said:

 

for me is in education.

If the radiology job market tanks, can you then work as a teacher?

[goleafsgochris 179]

Ill note that if you do it during residency, you can usually get paid a residents salary during your masters, even if you aren't doing clinical work at the time.  That's like a 65000 difference, so its a big deal.  

Obviously that doesn't help if you are doing the masters to improve your residency application.  But for any other reason, I would do it in residency over med school

[rmorelan 2,561]

On 2/5/2018 at 10:11 AM, insomnias said:

If the radiology job market tanks, can you then work as a teacher?

ha, you still have to do a teachers degree for that I guess. and gezz just what I don't need - another possible career

[rmorelan 2,561]

16 minutes ago, goleafsgochris said:

Ill note that if you do it during residency, you can usually get paid a residents salary during your masters, even if you aren't doing clinical work at the time.  That's like a 65000 difference, so its a big deal.  

Obviously that doesn't help if you are doing the masters to improve your residency application.  But for any other reason, I would do it in residency over med school

that was part of my logic about not doing it so early - the trouble with med school is for the most part you aren't 100% absolutely sure what you are going to end up doing. I know a lot of people whose md/phd wasn't really all that useful at all for their future careers - they are great smart people, and started excellent careers but not anywhere near what that degree was. One of my good friends did that and is now a family doctor - doing wonderfully but not related for sure. 

If you do it in residency you know exactly what type of doctor you will be, and can tailor things that way. You get paid for it AND you have access to all the clinical data you want. It makes a strong argument to consider at least I think.

Edited February 6, 2018 by rmorelan

[thestar10 114]

I'm doing one in residency in Education. MHPE program at Maastricht in the Netherlands. Primarily distance but I am doing 2 x 1 month in-person research blocks in the Netherlands (while getting my residency salary). I am in a specialty where advanced degrees are common. 

I've never been a fan of MD/PHD simply because you don't know what you will do clinically. I know several MD/PhD students who matched to a completley unrelated specailty (Psych/Neuro research matched to Gen Sx, Cardiac research matched to family, Neuroscience matched to family etc). I'm sure you can make the argument that research skills are transferable.

Honestly, there is also no comparison between MD/PhD and doing MSc or PhD in Residency. Residents make significantly more than graduate students, have better benefits and will have research goals that are related to their clinical specialty.

[distressedpremed 96]

How are you guys justifying the additional debt? I am looking to pursue one online as well, but I'm really worried about the extra 25-30K, especially for international schools...

[Edict 674]

Do a masters during residency. The reason to do it then is you get a resident's salary plus you'll know exactly what you want out of your masters by the time you are an R2 or 3 so you will much more likely do a masters that is useful. 

Masters these days are not like the masters of before, they are increasingly being watered down day after day. You can now get online masters degrees at any point in your life. There are huge variations between masters degrees now, but at the lowest level getting a masters is like going shopping at a grocery store, you just pick the fruit you want and take it home its that easy. In my opinion, unless you are actually learning something useful to your career during a masters, do not do one. Intrinsically, masters degrees are a dime a dozen, its essentially a transaction where you pay 30,000 for a big name school to send you a couple of powerpoints and a paper with "masters" written on it. 

Of course I am not begrudging the actually research masters which often lead to a PhD, nor am I begrudging the MBAs of big name schools who end up getting promotions off of those masters degrees. Those are actual useful masters, but increasingly you can find the opportunity to do a frankly useless masters in anything all you need to do is fork over your wallet. 

 

[rogerroger 155]

Do not do a masters in Med school. Poor financial decision. Get somewhat paid and do it in residency. I did this. Residency is the best time to do a masters. Not before. Not after. In Med school you make no money. As staff your masters likely will result in a pay cut as you can’t do as much clinically.  Residency is the time. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by rogerroger

[1D7 156]

4 hours ago, rogerroger said:

Do not do a masters in Med school. Poor financial decision. Get somewhat paid and do it in residency. I did this. Residency is the best time to do a masters. Not before. Not after. In Med school you make no money. As staff your masters likely will result in a pay cut as you can’t do as much clinically.  Residency is the time. 

Curious, was your program supportive of your leave for 2-3+ years?

I understand you are a ED physician, which is a field that is supposed to have plentiful jobs everywhere (or at least relative compared to many medical/surgical specialties). Did you feel like it has added much value to your work or finding a job?

[LittleDaisy 288]

Well for what it's worth, the faculty of medicine at UofT reimburses 100% of tuition of faculty who is pursuing MSc/PhD degree, they give you a stipend of a few thousand dollars per month knowing that you will have to cut down your clinical hours

If you can manage to do an online master then I would argue that the best time to do it is when you are a staff; you will most likely doing less calls (hopefully), and have more control over your schedule, and more likely being able to afford the tuition without relying on your LOC. Most people who do MSc/PhD are gunning for an academic position or promotion and can actually use their graduate degree to apply for promotion afterwards. 

I am not a big fan of getting a MSc through those expensive online programs just to fit the checkbox, but needless to say, the graduate degrees only matter in academic positions. The community hospitals just care if you are a good fit to their group. 

[rmorelan 2,561]

Just now, LittleDaisy said:

Well for what it's worth, the faculty of medicine at UofT reimburses 100% of tuition of faculty who is pursuing MSc/PhD degree, they give you a stipend of a few thousand dollars per month knowing that you will have to cut down your clinical hours

If you can manage to do an online master then I would argue that the best time to do it is when you are a staff; you will most likely doing less calls (hopefully), and have more control over your schedule, and more likely being able to afford the tuition without relying on your LOC. Most people who do MSc/PhD are gunning for an academic position, and can use their graduate degree to apply for promotion afterwards. 

I am not a big fan of getting a MSc through those expensive online programs to get a title, but needless to say, the graduate degrees only matter in academic positions. The community hospitals just care if you are a good fit to their group. 

......sorry they do what? 

now you have my interest. Are there any details about that floating around? 

[LittleDaisy 288]

20 hours ago, rmorelan said:

......sorry they do what? 

now you have my interest. Are there any details about that floating around? 

You have to talk to academic staff physicians, there are policies within the department but they don't put them up online. Each university is different. 

I think that during residency, you have to pay for the master/PhD tuition at your own cost, which is a lot for a salary of 65 K and at some point tax credit runs out. It's also incredibly busy during residency. A lot of people end up doing an "additional year" or have no social life, but I find that you lose more income buy adding one extra year of residency to finish a master or 3 years for PhD.

At UofT, for staff physcians, if the want to pursue a master/PhD, the tuition is fully paid by the faculty of medicine, they want more faculty members to have postgraduate degrees. 

Most of the academic staff physicians don't work full-time and are encouraged by the Faculty of Medicine to pursue additional degrees.  Also when you happen to be an assistant professor at UofT or higher, your kids' tuition are free for undergraduate degrees. There is certain incentive to stay in academic medicine, but they rarely advertise it, as there are a lot of people wanting to go into it without knowing the hidden benefits. For me, medical education is my passion, and I am okay getting a 30% paycheck cut than doing clinical full-time and have no variety in my professional life  

They will also pay a stipend of 1000-2000 K per month to offset the lost income due to part-time education.