How Does Transferring Residencies Work?

[PlasticSurgery]

I recently matched into one of my parallel plan specialties (5 year program). While I am very grateful for matching, I feel that I made the wrong choice ranking this specialty, and would have rather matched into family medicine. I was just wondering how one would go about transferring into another specialty, and how soon I should start working on this process. Also, am I limited to transferring specialties at my own institution, or can I transfer to other schools as well? Thanks in advance!

[Persephone]

2 hours ago, PlasticSurgery said:

I recently matched into one of my parallel plan specialties (5 year program). While I am very grateful for matching, I feel that I made the wrong choice ranking this specialty, and would have rather matched into family medicine. I was just wondering how one would go about transferring into another specialty, and how soon I should start working on this process. Also, am I limited to transferring specialties at my own institution, or can I transfer to other schools as well? Thanks in advance!

If you search the forums there are a ton of threads with this same question if you want more information. You need to talk to your PD about it and they need to support you in doing so. It is easier to transfer within a school I believe, but also possible to do within a province. It gets harder if you're trying to transfer between provinces b/c funding is provincial. I am not sure about timeline stuff, there may be answers you can find elsewhere on this forum or maybe someone else can pipe in.

[PlasticSurgery]

3 minutes ago, Persephone said:

If you search the forums there are a ton of threads with this same question if you want more information. You need to talk to your PD about it and they need to support you in doing so. It is easier to transfer within a school I believe, but also possible to do within a province. It gets harder if you're trying to transfer between provinces b/c funding is provincial. I am not sure about timeline stuff, there may be answers you can find elsewhere on this forum or maybe someone else can pipe in.

Thanks for the reply, I'll search the forum. When transferring, say from IM to FM, do you generally have to start from PGY1 again?

[Persephone]

28 minutes ago, PlasticSurgery said:

Thanks for the reply, I'll search the forum. When transferring, say from IM to FM, do you generally have to start from PGY1 again?

I think some rotations can count for credit but I am not 100% sure. I think it's mainly about making sure you complete the requirements of your program.

[MedZZZ]

2 hours ago, PlasticSurgery said:

Thanks for the reply, I'll search the forum. When transferring, say from IM to FM, do you generally have to start from PGY1 again?

I am just curious to know why you are transferring from IM to FM?! I thought it's usually the other way around and feel like IM was very popular this year ...

[insomnias]

59 minutes ago, MedZZZ said:

I am just curious to know why you are transferring from IM to FM?! I thought it's usually the other way around and feel like IM was very popular this year ...

IM is brutal, especially in PGY1. Plus, independent practice with IM is 4yrs vs 2 (or 2.5 if transferring) for FM. If you want an outpatient practice where you see everything, IM might be overkill.

3 hours ago, PlasticSurgery said:

Thanks for the reply, I'll search the forum. When transferring, say from IM to FM, do you generally have to start from PGY1 again?

The max amount of credit you can receive when transferring into FM from a Royal College specialty is 6 months, but you may not get that much, depending on the overlap between the rotations you've done and what the curriculum of the program is. The program also has an incentive to minimize your transfer credit so that they can get the service out of you.

[bearded frog]

3 hours ago, PlasticSurgery said:

Thanks for the reply, I'll search the forum. When transferring, say from IM to FM, do you generally have to start from PGY1 again?

It varies, but say your FM and IM have a gen surg rotation, you can get credit for that rotation. If the FM program doesn't have any overlapping rotations (do FM programs have CTU rotations?) then you will have to start from scratch.

[JTFW]

PM me, transferred from IM to FM. Now working as GP in BC. But simple answer to your question is, you likely need to wait for 6 months before you can start the transfer process. Most likely transfer within province (your own school). Out of province transfer is difficult. You can always apply for 2nd round of CaRMS even though you have been matched before. You will talk to PD and likely postgraduate head (just casual chat). They will then put you on the list for transfer. Depends on your school, it might be competitive so longer wait. You will get 6 month credits maximum like people said in the forum. You will start as PGY1 as designation. 

[PlasticSurgery]

13 hours ago, MedZZZ said:

I am just curious to know why you are transferring from IM to FM?! I thought it's usually the other way around and feel like IM was very popular this year ...

IM was my parallel plan specialty, and I thought I would be happy with it. I ended up matching to my first choice IM program on April 20 and I felt a sense of dread rather than excitement. Looking back at my clerkship rotations, I enjoyed internal but I also enjoyed family medicine. I think that I would rather just do 2 years and maybe a plus 1 rather than going through a second CaRMS process with the risk of not even matching into what I want to do.

[PlasticSurgery]

10 hours ago, JTFW said:

PM me, transferred from IM to FM. Now working as GP in BC. But simple answer to your question is, you likely need to wait for 6 months before you can start the transfer process. Most likely transfer within province (your own school). Out of province transfer is difficult. You can always apply for 2nd round of CaRMS even though you have been matched before. You will talk to PD and likely postgraduate head (just casual chat). They will then put you on the list for transfer. Depends on your school, it might be competitive so longer wait. You will get 6 month credits maximum like people said in the forum. You will start as PGY1 as designation. 

Thanks so much! Just sent a PM!

[Davinci]

Remember that you don’t HAVE to participate or match in the MSM match. If you decide not to participate  or go unmatched, you will just complete a 4th year in GIM and graduate and start working as a GIM. So the MSM is not as high stake as the R1 match.

[PlasticSurgery]

4 minutes ago, Davinci said:

Remember that you don’t HAVE to participate or match in the MSM match. If you decide not to participate  or go unmatched, you will just complete a 4th year in GIM and graduate and start working as a GIM. So the MSM is not as high stake as the R1 match.

That's true! My only concern is that if I were to do GIM, I feel that I would prefer to have just went the family medicine route and be done in 2 yrs (or 2.5 yrs after transferring). I also feel that I am concerned with not matching given that I recently didn't match to my first choice specialty and I now have feelings of doubt haha :/ 

[bearded frog]

1 hour ago, PlasticSurgery said:

That's true! My only concern is that if I were to do GIM, I feel that I would prefer to have just went the family medicine route and be done in 2 yrs (or 2.5 yrs after transferring). I also feel that I am concerned with not matching given that I recently didn't match to my first choice specialty and I now have feelings of doubt haha :/ 

My advice is give it the honest college try. If by October you're still not feeling it, sit down with your PD and be honest about your feelings. Hopefully at that point they can reach out to your university's FM program on your behalf and see if there's options there, if not then go through your PGME for transfer to another institution. Finally, come April you can apply to any remainder FM spots available in the second round. If you are an established resident with good evaluations and a positive letter from your PD, then I think you have good chances for FM because you will be seen as a "sure thing" who has proven they can hold their own in residency vs 2nd round applicants/IMGs.

Royal college --> FM is the most common type of successful transfer I've seen, and usually FM programs are large with frequent LOAs for maternal leave etc. and are somewhat flexible with numbers. Conversely going FM --> IM would be a much more uphill battle.

[PlasticSurgery]

20 hours ago, bearded frog said:

My advice is give it the honest college try. If by October you're still not feeling it, sit down with your PD and be honest about your feelings. Hopefully at that point they can reach out to your university's FM program on your behalf and see if there's options there, if not then go through your PGME for transfer to another institution. Finally, come April you can apply to any remainder FM spots available in the second round. If you are an established resident with good evaluations and a positive letter from your PD, then I think you have good chances for FM because you will be seen as a "sure thing" who has proven they can hold their own in residency vs 2nd round applicants/IMGs.

Royal college --> FM is the most common type of successful transfer I've seen, and usually FM programs are large with frequent LOAs for maternal leave etc. and are somewhat flexible with numbers. Conversely going FM --> IM would be a much more uphill battle.

Thanks for the reply! From what you have heard, do you usually tell your own programs PD that you are thinking of transferring before contacting other programs? Or would I contact other programs' PDs and then tell my PD once they tell me it is possible to transfer?

[bearded frog]

It depends on your relationship with your PD.

Again, from what I've seen is that PDs don't want unhappy residents in their program, so if you are a good resident with a good rapport with your PD/staff then I would use them as an asset, let them go to bat for you. I feel like unless you are close with a FM staff/resident who can do it, having your PD make an introduction/recommendation off the bat will be better for you than cold calling. Again the accepting programs want to know that you're cool, which that definitely does, and your PD and their PD likely have a relationship, have done transfers in the past, etc.

Alternatively if your PD is an ass then A - you're going to have a much tougher time getting out of there and B - you want them to know as late as possible. In this case you want other staff in your program and staff mentors in the FM program on your side, and you want them to decide to enough to overcome any protestations from your own PD. I don't think this is common in Canada unless you are a problem resident. So don't be a problem resident and state your desire to get the fuck out of there ASAP day one lol

[Edict]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:34 PM, PlasticSurgery said:

That's true! My only concern is that if I were to do GIM, I feel that I would prefer to have just went the family medicine route and be done in 2 yrs (or 2.5 yrs after transferring). I also feel that I am concerned with not matching given that I recently didn't match to my first choice specialty and I now have feelings of doubt haha :/ 

Give GIM a chance, it is still early days after the match, you may find you enjoy IM. However, as far as I know, you should probably begin the process of trying to network and prepare an application to transfer sometime around Sept-Oct. 

I would reach out to family doctors and the FM program first. I would probably tell my PD after you are confident you want to transfer. 

[GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar]

16 hours ago, bearded frog said:

It depends on your relationship with your PD.

Alternatively if your PD is an ass then A - you're going to have a much tougher time getting out of there and B - you want them to know as late as possible. In this case you want other staff in your program and staff mentors in the FM program on your side, and you want them to decide to enough to overcome any protestations from your own PD. I don't think this is common in Canada unless you are a problem resident. So don't be a problem resident and state your desire to get the fuck out of there ASAP day one lol

If you try and transfer out of a program and fail (thanks COVID19) expect the next year to be hell. I'm personally at the point where leaving for a year to write the USMLE to leave my current program seems like a viable option.

Some programs remain unfilled or lose residents for a reason. My current program is at a roughly 1 in 3 resident transfer rate over the last 8 years, and is bleeding staff. I 100% would have rather gone unmatched than end up in a fundamentally broken royal college program in retrospect.

[PlasticSurgery]

19 hours ago, bearded frog said:

It depends on your relationship with your PD.

Again, from what I've seen is that PDs don't want unhappy residents in their program, so if you are a good resident with a good rapport with your PD/staff then I would use them as an asset, let them go to bat for you. I feel like unless you are close with a FM staff/resident who can do it, having your PD make an introduction/recommendation off the bat will be better for you than cold calling. Again the accepting programs want to know that you're cool, which that definitely does, and your PD and their PD likely have a relationship, have done transfers in the past, etc.

Alternatively if your PD is an ass then A - you're going to have a much tougher time getting out of there and B - you want them to know as late as possible. In this case you want other staff in your program and staff mentors in the FM program on your side, and you want them to decide to enough to overcome any protestations from your own PD. I don't think this is common in Canada unless you are a problem resident. So don't be a problem resident and state your desire to get the fuck out of there ASAP day one lol

haha thanks for the advice!! I'll make sure to be the best internal resident I can!

[PlasticSurgery]

8 hours ago, Edict said:

Give GIM a chance, it is still early days after the match, you may find you enjoy IM. However, as far as I know, you should probably begin the process of trying to network and prepare an application to transfer sometime around Sept-Oct. 

I would reach out to family doctors and the FM program first. I would probably tell my PD after you are confident you want to transfer. 

Thanks so much for the advice!!

[PlasticSurgery]

2 hours ago, GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar said:

If you try and transfer out of a program and fail (thanks COVID19) expect the next year to be hell. I'm personally at the point where leaving for a year to write the USMLE to leave my current program seems like a viable option.

Some programs remain unfilled or lose residents for a reason. My current program is at a roughly 1 in 3 resident transfer rate over the last 8 years, and is bleeding staff. I 100% would have rather gone unmatched than end up in a fundamentally broken royal college program in retrospect.

Thanks for the reply! Sorry to hear about your situation  If you don't mind me asking, what speciality are you in currently?

[shikimate]

2 hours ago, GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar said:

If you try and transfer out of a program and fail (thanks COVID19) expect the next year to be hell. I'm personally at the point where leaving for a year to write the USMLE to leave my current program seems like a viable option.

Some programs remain unfilled or lose residents for a reason. My current program is at a roughly 1 in 3 resident transfer rate over the last 8 years, and is bleeding staff. I 100% would have rather gone unmatched than end up in a fundamentally broken royal college program in retrospect.

That's crazy, can't imagine how call gets covered. If you need any resources for USMLE let me know.

[lovemedicinesomuch]

54 minutes ago, shikimate said:

That's crazy, can't imagine how call gets covered. If you need any resources for USMLE let me know.

 

Can you please share USMLE resources with me as well. I'm planning to write my USMLE in upcoming months.

[GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar]

Unfortunately I don't have anything other than some physical prep books I ordered off Amazon.

Anything anyone would recommend?

Call is managed where I am, but it's not great

[jehube]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:28 PM, bearded frog said:

My advice is give it the honest college try. If by October you're still not feeling it, sit down with your PD and be honest about your feelings. Hopefully at that point they can reach out to your university's FM program on your behalf and see if there's options there, if not then go through your PGME for transfer to another institution. Finally, come April you can apply to any remainder FM spots available in the second round. If you are an established resident with good evaluations and a positive letter from your PD, then I think you have good chances for FM because you will be seen as a "sure thing" who has proven they can hold their own in residency vs 2nd round applicants/IMGs.

Royal college --> FM is the most common type of successful transfer I've seen, and usually FM programs are large with frequent LOAs for maternal leave etc. and are somewhat flexible with numbers. Conversely going FM --> IM would be a much more uphill battle.

Question about transfers (which you may or may not have the answer to): in addition to the evals, do you have to interview for the program? And does your LMCC score matter at all in terms of choosing transfer residents?

[bearded frog]

3 hours ago, jehube said:

Question about transfers (which you may or may not have the answer to): in addition to the evals, do you have to interview for the program? And does your LMCC score matter at all in terms of choosing transfer residents?

I assume there would be an interview at some point. Only the program knows what criteria they would use to decide to accept a transfer. Your LMCC score does not at all matter for residency in my experience, but perhaps they could ask for it.