Sabbatical year at the end of preclinical years, before clerkship years (between M2-M3)

[Medfam20]

Hi. I am a medical student (last year of preclinical years) and thinking about taking a sabbatical next year (before clerkship), since my faculty offers the possibility (I study in Quebec). Med school have been really hard on me mentally and I just need a break (I feel burned out) and try to figure out who I am and what are my passions in life beside medicine. I am planning on travelling and learn to be active (I am not fit and I would like to learn sports). I have always wanted to be a doctor and I have been working on that goal for my whole life and I never took time to actually discover myself and my other passions. I entered med school at a really young age (early 18 yo) and I never actually lived my life. I am writing this because I want to hear the experience of anyone who took a sabbatical and if he/she regretted it. I know for sure that I wanna go into family medicine and I would like to know if the sabbatical year could affect my CARMS. 

P.S: Pour les francophones, vous pouvez répondre en français

Thank you in advance  Merci à tous!

[bearded frog]

On 11/1/2021 at 6:00 PM, Medfam20 said:

 I know for sure that I wanna go into family medicine and I would like to know if the sabbatical year could affect my CARMS.

maybe. At the very least come up with a better reason then needing a break from medical school...

[Snowmen]

You are in Quebec and want to apply to family medicine. Do it.

The only way to go unmatched to family medicine in Quebec is not to apply.

[Medfam20]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, bearded frog said:

maybe. At the very least come up with a better reason then needing a break from medical school...

« A better reason »... Euhm, I think that having mental health problems and being burned out is a good reason for taking a break. I do not appreciate people who minimise the effect of what poor mental health can do to someone... Anywhoo thanks.

[Medfam20]

On 11/3/2021 at 11:11 AM, Snowmen said:

You are in Quebec and want to apply to family medicine. Do it.

The only way to go unmatched to family medicine in Quebec is not to apply.

Thank you so much for your answer ! 

[frenchpress]

16 hours ago, Medfam20 said:

« A better reason »... Euhm, I think that having mental health problems and being burned out is a good reason for taking a break. I do not appreciate people who minimise the effect of what poor mental health can do to someone... Anywhoo thanks.

I think Bearded Frog's point is that you should be prepared to explain in an interview the reason behind the break to someone who might not empathize with you. I agree completely that burnout is real and someone taking a year off for mental health (or just do something else!) can be a really good thing to do. But you're asking about whether or not taking a break and time off to travel could affect your CaRMS applications - whether or not it's fair, saying 'I just needed a break' could be looked on poorly by competitive programs. As the other poster said, for family medicine in quebec this is probably OK. But you should know this could be a real issue elsewhere and for other programs, and be realistic about your options if you end up changing your mind about what you want to do after clerkship. If you're only prepared to hear the answer you want to hear then we can't really help you. 

[bearded frog]

13 hours ago, Medfam20 said:

« A better reason »... Euhm, I think that having mental health problems and being burned out is a good reason for taking a break. I do not appreciate people who minimise the effect of what poor mental health can do to someone... Anywhoo thanks.

Hey, how disrespectful can you be to someone who is offering you advice.

Your post literally says you need a break and want to travel, nothing about mental health.

If you actually have mental health problems (and are not just using it as a lame excuse that's frankly insulting to the people who actually struggle with diagnosed mental health conditions instead of self-diagnosing and trying to get pity points and sympathy while you "find yourself" on your "wellness journey" partying in Europe) then see your school's student centre and ask for a medical leave of absence to address your "legitimate" mental health issues.

You would then describe it as a temporary leave of absence for a medical reason during carms, and that's all you have to say... the point being is you wouldn't describe it as "needing a break from medical school to travel and relax".

In summary, try to think a little bit before insulting someone trying to help you.

[dkeegan]

Dear MedFam20,

I'm a faculty member who regularly reviews applications for a Canadian residency program.  Here are my thoughts.

First, do what you need to do.  If you need to take a break, take a break.

Second, as has been mentioned, be prepared to explain it.  And it sounds like you've got a good explanation.  Be authentic in your explanation; don't try to make up something fancy.

Will some file reviewers dislike that you took a break?  Maybe, but then you wouldn't want to be at such a program.

Will some file reviewers respect that you took a sabbatical that is built-in as an available option?  For sure!  I would.

I would suggest that you can describe what you've done with that year - not just playing Call of Duty, but describe how you used your time as you describe wanting to.

To me, this kind of desire is an incredible sign of maturity.  I would love to have in our program such a person who was very mindful about their role in medicine and sought out a pause to be sure, rather than mindlessly staying on a path.  The other thing is such a gap in training is an incredible opportunity and a rare one. 

So if your heart is telling you to do this, do it.  This is a good rule for life and a great rule for careers.  Not everyone will get it.  But who cares about them.

Plus, you'll be able to explain that it was an opportunity provided by your university.  (To be clear, file reviewers will want to understand that it wasn't 'cause you failed a year.)  You will need to be explicit about this gap in time in your personal letter.

Me?  I hope that I get to review your application in a few years time.  I'm looking forward to hearing about what you did on your year, how it helped you become a better doctor, how it helped you learn more about yourself.

I wish you the very best.

David Keegan

PS - MedFam20, feel free to reach out to me through ofdp@ucalgary.ca.

[helpmeplz]

On 11/5/2021 at 3:08 PM, bearded frog said:

Hey, how disrespectful can you be to someone who is offering you advice.

Your post literally says you need a break and want to travel, nothing about mental health.

If you actually have mental health problems (and are not just using it as a lame excuse that's frankly insulting to the people who actually struggle with diagnosed mental health conditions instead of self-diagnosing and trying to get pity points and sympathy while you "find yourself" on your "wellness journey" partying in Europe) then see your school's student centre and ask for a medical leave of absence to address your "legitimate" mental health issues.

You would then describe it as a temporary leave of absence for a medical reason during carms, and that's all you have to say... the point being is you wouldn't describe it as "needing a break from medical school to travel and relax".

In summary, try to think a little bit before insulting someone trying to help you.

Don’t take it to heart, things like this happen when med school admit students almost directly after high school

[Medfam20]

On 11/5/2021 at 3:08 PM, bearded frog said:

Hey, how disrespectful can you be to someone who is offering you advice.

Your post literally says you need a break and want to travel, nothing about mental health.

If you actually have mental health problems (and are not just using it as a lame excuse that's frankly insulting to the people who actually struggle with diagnosed mental health conditions instead of self-diagnosing and trying to get pity points and sympathy while you "find yourself" on your "wellness journey" partying in Europe) then see your school's student centre and ask for a medical leave of absence to address your "legitimate" mental health issues.

You would then describe it as a temporary leave of absence for a medical reason during carms, and that's all you have to say... the point being is you wouldn't describe it as "needing a break from medical school to travel and relax".

In summary, try to think a little bit before insulting someone trying to help you.

Im sorry, but you do not know my situation or anything. Your message is so rude, it actually made me sad. People like you are actually the reason why I need to stop medicine for a while, many doctors see that needing a break because of poor mental health as if it is not a right reason. 
I did not get into details in my post, but I did mention that I have been in a mentally bad place since I entered med school. I just did not feel like exposing details of my personnal mental and physical health on a public site lol. But yeah here we are. I am indeed treated for a mental problem. Just because I am treated doesn’t mean that I do not struggle every single day of my life. I litteraly cry every single day of my life, have gained 50 pounds in 3 months (again)and have been battling every day just to get up and study. And just for your knowing, I cannot take a « medical leave » 1 year in advance. For medical leaves, you cannot really plan them before (from what my faculty told me). Even if I think I would benefit from a medical leave RIGHT NOW, I do not want to do it because I just want to finish my last freaking semester of preclinical. Even if I’m a freaking obese zombie at the end of the year, I need to finish it now to get it off my shoulders. I have hated every second of my preclinical years and I need to finish it. I cannot stand being ALONE in my city for one more year. If I stop now (thought about it) I will have to restart the whole year next year from the beginning and I just can’t do it. And yeah, I wanna go travel, be fit and more importantly learn to control my anxiety/sadness and do a full introspection on how I made it from being the most happy/full of life person on the planet to being this fat sad person I don’t even recognize and how to prevent it from happening again. A DIAGNOSED depressed person is not allowed to travel and try to find something to be happy about and to actually enjoy life for a few moments ??? 

You should never judge someone if you do not know what the other person is living.

P.S: I understand that your first message might have been to help me, but I think that you didnt express yourself very well because the only thing you said was that I needed to find a better reason. You second message was just rude thought. 

[Medfam20]

2 hours ago, helpmeplz said:

Don’t take it to heart, things like this happen when med school admit students almost directly after high school

I didn’t go to med school directly after High school by the way lol. And yeah I still started med school at 18.

[bearded frog]

54 minutes ago, Medfam20 said:

words

So look... everyone struggles in medical school (and residency). It's hard, especially when you're young and naive, as you are coming across. You seem to have bit off more than you can chew. Depression and anxiety are super common in the field, half my resident cohort was on anti-depressants. You clearly need support, and there should be no stigma about asking for help. Again, if you have not, talk to your doctor or the student supports in your program. It's up to you if you need to take a medical leave or not. However a medical leave is not the same as a year long sabbatical to travel. Generally people who need to take time off for medical reasons are not well enough to travel.

But the point of my post in the first place is do whatever the fuck you want. Lie and say you really really need the time off because you're sick and the cure is so visit Amsterdam. Go see the world. But when it comes time for carms, keep lying and don't tell them you travelled. That's the point I'm making. And for the record, needing to take off a year sometime in the future because you're struggling now is total bullshit. Hope this helps!

[helpmeplz]

3 hours ago, Medfam20 said:

I didn’t go to med school directly after High school by the way lol. And yeah I still started med school at 18.

“Almost directly” = 2 years of cegep, which is basically nothing

[unarmed walrus]

@bearded frog, speaking as a neutral third party here reading through the thread, your replies here have a distinct flavour of condescension and passive aggression, neither of which are helpful or constructive. I do believe that you are sincerely trying to be helpful, but do be mindful of the tone you're striking, especially with such a sensitive issue. 

[bearded frog]

I don't know anything about this person, but have nothing but disdain for those who use "mental health" as an excuse for their non-mental health problems, which perpetuates the stigma unfairly applied to those with actual mental health issues. I answered their question legitimately and their response was a personal attack, accusing me of not caring about mental health. So yes, I am considering their words with not just condescension, but utter contempt. And I disagree that it's not helpful, because this person seems to need a serious wake up call, and I'm more than happy to accommodate.

[MDee2B]

hey, just trying to help restore the friendly and constructive vibe that makes this forum such a good place:

obviously I don't know either of you, but just from reading the posts it would appear from their wording that OP belongs to the very demographic which you @bearded frog are interested in protecting. 

23 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

I don't know anything about this person, but have nothing but disdain for those who use "mental health" as an excuse for their non-mental health problems, which perpetuates the stigma unfairly applied to those with actual mental health issues.

 

On 11/9/2021 at 10:16 AM, Medfam20 said:

I am indeed treated for a mental problem.

 

On 11/9/2021 at 10:16 AM, Medfam20 said:

A DIAGNOSED depressed person is not allowed to travel and try to find something to be happy about and to actually enjoy life for a few moments ??? 

 

[metr0]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:47 AM, helpmeplz said:

“Almost directly” = 2 years of cegep, which is basically nothing

 I understand that elsewhere in Canada you need to complete a full undergraduate degree prior to applying to medical school, however I do believe that Cegep really does push you to your limits in that if you want to go to Medicine or any health related field, you are required to take 3 university physics level courses, 2, cal1&2 + linear algebra, etc, all while doing 6-7 courses a semester, so its still kinda tough and alot of people still find cegep very challenging, so please don't disregard cegep as nothing without having a perspective on the level of difficulty in Cegep. (am in undergrad rn and find it significantly easier than cegep lmao)

 

edit: i guess if you meant time wise 2 years being 'nothing' compared to 4 I get it, but its still was extremely challenging for alot of people including myself (and sorry if that was super off topic for this thread, my apologies i just thought i would chime in on the cegep stuff)

[Medfam20]

7 hours ago, bearded frog said:

I don't know anything about this person, but have nothing but disdain for those who use "mental health" as an excuse for their non-mental health problems, which perpetuates the stigma unfairly applied to those with actual mental health issues. I answered their question legitimately and their response was a personal attack, accusing me of not caring about mental health. So yes, I am considering their words with not just condescension, but utter contempt. And I disagree that it's not helpful, because this person seems to need a serious wake up call, and I'm more than happy to accommodate.

I do not understand why you are accusing me of being one of « those who use mental health as an excuse for their non-mental health problems » as I already explained to you that I am a diagnosed depressed and taking medication for it and still really struggling. I swear to God I regret posting on this forum because all I received is humiliation and being attacked as if I was lying. Only because I said that I wanted to travel and according to your « definition », being depressed is not compatible with travelling. If you knew me (which you do not, so you should stop assuming stuff), when I say « travelling », I never intended to « party through Europe ». I actually want to go back to my home country to see my freaking parents that I cannot see while being in med school and to freaking stop being alone. I also mean taking my parents on a trip to a place they always dreamed to see (won’t say where for personal reasons). So yes, stop assuming shit you don’t know about and thinking that I am the « basic white boy » who wants to take off from med school because he wants to go party through europe, meet girls and get drunk for a year. 
And I do not need a « serious wake up call » as in the contrary, I am mature enough to know when I am reaching my limit and when I cannot take more. I recognize that my body needs to take a break or else I will break. I know that I will not be able to continue medicine next year. So yes I am going to take my break, go see my parents, live for real and discover myself. I don’t care if for you it’s not a right reason. I am a diagnosed depressed and I intend on healing next year (healing for real, not only by taking some pills and calling it healing). Before you say to me « but if you are so depressed, why won’t you take your break right now? » Well, first I stated a reason above, but there is also huge logistic problems that keep me from doing so (apartment lease, money and more). So yeah, anyways I won’t justify myself anymore to you, but I do hope that you will learn someday to stop making assumptions and stop being mean to a complete stranger on the internet (who even told you that they are mentally stuggling… like how can you be so heartless?) 

[indefatigable]

On 11/1/2021 at 9:00 PM, Medfam20 said:

Hi. I am a medical student (last year of preclinical years) and thinking about taking a sabbatical next year (before clerkship), since my faculty offers the possibility (I study in Quebec). Med school have been really hard on me mentally and I just need a break (I feel burned out) and try to figure out who I am and what are my passions in life beside medicine. I am planning on travelling and learn to be active (I am not fit and I would like to learn sports). I have always wanted to be a doctor and I have been working on that goal for my whole life and I never took time to actually discover myself and my other passions. I entered med school at a really young age (early 18 yo) and I never actually lived my life. I am writing this because I want to hear the experience of anyone who took a sabbatical and if he/she regretted it. I know for sure that I wanna go into family medicine and I would like to know if the sabbatical year could affect my CARMS. 

Thank you in advance  Merci à tous!

I went to med school in QC and saw people take a year off for various reasons ranging from significant health issues to research to travel and other personal activities.  So a "sabbatical year" is not unheard of within QC.

Could it effect CaRMS?  It depends what you apply to, what you do during the break and whether the break has medical justification or not.  

As mentioned above, for FM within QC it probably won't make any difference .  Outside QC you may have to reflect more on your experience and why you think it prepared you to be a better family doc.  Other programs (non-FM) would likely give less leeway especially if the year away from academics is more oriented towards personal activities/exploration - a year off for any reason is looked at carefully even if it's towards research.

tl;dr If you're absolutely sure you don't want to do anything else but FM in QC then you can likely take the year off without many consequences.  Regardless, I think it's really important to continue to reach out to your care team to find the best treatment for your mental health.  Clerkship is usually more taxing than pre-clerkship and taking a "sabbatical year" on its own is unlikely to help you develop better coping mechanisms for some of the issues that you seem to be dealing with .