med schools match rate

[who_knows]

^^ Yeah, exactly. The person who got IM as a backup won't try as hard and won't be excited to be in IM. Not everyone, but in general, it's common sense that if you end up in your plan B or C, you won't be as happy.

13 hours ago, zoxy said:

Why would loving being an internist more valuable?

To me, it is. You can read so many stories (even on this forum) when people end up in FM as a backup and they are miserable. Do you think they do as good of a job as a happy FM resident? This applies to IM 100%.

[zoxy]

7 hours ago, who_knows said:

The person who got IM as a backup won't try as hard and won't be excited to be in IM.

This is a generalization that I'm not sure holds true. Many folks can be happy in different specialties. Many folks struggle to make up their mind well into third and fourth year. Besides, you're assuming  medical students are making decisions with perfect insight into specialties, the future of those specialties, and insights into their own future selves, desires and psyche. You'll find people that matched into their dream specialty and find out that their dream wasn't what they thought it would be. This is especially true in surgical fields.

7 hours ago, who_knows said:

You can read so many stories (even on this forum) when people end up in FM as a backup and they are miserable

Availability heuristic and selection bias. Just because there are 2-3 people on this forum who moan about FM and make wildly outlandish claims about the practice of FM doesn't mean everyone who matches into a backup specialty is miserable for eternity. They're just busy living their life, spending time with their family, enjoying their hobbies and don't need to come to this website and cry "woe is me" when they don't match to ENT/Ophtho/Derm/EM. 

7 hours ago, who_knows said:

Do you think they do as good of a job as a happy FM resident? This applies to IM 100%.

I don't know the answer to that question but I would assume program directors would. If they keep taking better candidates who back up into IM over the IM lovers who aren't as accomplished/knowledgeable, it would lead me to believe that they would do as good a job.

[1D7]

What matters to a program is someone who is reliable, hardworking, and will complete their research requirements.

The reality of most hospital-based residencies, especially IM, is that there's a lot of service to the point where GIM CTU/CTU call just feels like a grind. At that point the most successful residents are those who are resilient and have high baseline work ethic. IM is also broad enough that most people can find a subspecialty they an envision themselves at least somewhat enjoying. Liking IM helps at a baseline, but it's not the be all end all.

[medschool10000]

Anecdotal, but I considered backing up with IM - glad I didn't in the end - but was persuaded not to by a staff who had a say in the residency admissions process. He basically said if you're not a 100% IM gunner, programs see that/try and sniff that out and will hold a bias against you. He spoke a bit about what the posters above are saying, how if you're not 100% in IM, then it would be plausible you'd burn out easier on shitty CTU call/would dislike it more as a backup/etc etc. Not saying I agree with any of that (in fact I was kind of taken aback when he told me this), but clearly program higher-ups have these things in mind and at least some definitely prefer the dedicated IM applicant over the clear backup. I think with the 8 week cap, backups look a lot more obvious, especially if your electives are 4x optho, 4x IM, and 1x FM - this screams backup and who knows, maybe it will look bad on you.

Very frustrating from an applicants perspective - just plays more into how silly some parts of CaRMS/med school is.

[who_knows]

20 hours ago, Masterpizza said:

Which program is that?

It's an IM program in Dartmouth, US.

Zoxy, I get your point, an excellent CV means an excellent fit. But I disagree with that. And the IM program director agrees that a strong desire to be an internist (which can be demonstrated by many means other than merely expressing the desire) >> publications/research etc. This holds especially true in the setting of the Pass/Fail grading. You won't convince me that someone who was obviously gunning for Ortho would be happy in IM. Again, I am not talking in absolutes, there are exceptions.

[indefatigable]

5 hours ago, zoxy said:

Availability heuristic and selection bias. Just because there are 2-3 people on this forum who moan about FM and make wildly outlandish claims about the practice of FM doesn't mean everyone who matches into a backup specialty is miserable for eternity. They're just busy living their life, spending time with their family, enjoying their hobbies and don't need to come to this website and cry "woe is me" when they don't match to ENT/Ophtho/Derm/EM. 

 

[BuildAdditionalPylons]

Match rate for Schulich this year is ~ 95% 

https://www.schulich.uwo.ca/about/news/2022/april/announcement_2022_carms_match_results.html

[Xbox Skully]

Does anyone know why the current year img match rate(82%) is higher than the current year usmd match rate(68%)?

[Xbox Skully]

https://www.carms.ca/data-reports/r1-data-reports/

[bearded frog]

It's a low number so maybe noisy data, but also the US match was first this year so perhaps the only ones remaining for CARMS were those excellent applicants gunning Canada or poor applicants who failed to match in the US and Canada? Or I'm not sure if the data includes those who applied to both and matched to the US then withdrew from carms?

[carmsinoid]

4 hours ago, Xbox Skully said:

Does anyone know why the current year img match rate(82%) is higher than the current year usmd match rate(68%)?

The numbers are so low for USMDs that it's hard to make any conclusion if this is just noise or a real difference.

Historically most Canadians who go to the US for medical school focus on matching in the US given the higher chances there. Dual US/CAN citizens who have spent their entire life in the US generally have no reason to leave and so most don't apply for CaRMS either. Previously when the Canadian match was before the US match, some eligible USMDs would apply and only rank the Canadian programs that they would want above any and all programs in the US, kind of like purchasing a lottery ticket or applying to the Ivies/reach schools because you never know what could happen. These programs tend to also be the programs that most CMGs want as well, but for them, since CaRMS happened first, if they don't match, then it's not a big deal because their highest chance of matching was the US anyways (where they would apply broadly, rank most programs, etc similar to CMGs). This year (and last year and next year), the US match happened first so USMDs could no longer use that strategy. For them to match in CaRMS, they had to have been unmatched in the US, either because they were not a strong candidate, applied for a competitive specialty, did not rank as many programs as they should have, etc. Given that there's a much higher chance to match in the US, it would be a super risky move to not apply broadly and rank most programs in the US match. If they did that and still did not match, only then would they have had a chance to match in CaRMS. That also means there's probably more of a chance that they were not as strong of an applicant overall, had red flags, etc, so therefore had very little chance of matching in CaRMS in the first place. Basically the USMDs that remained eligible for the CaRMS match were - huge overgeneralization here - the applicants that no program in the US wanted as their top choices/high enough on the rank list to match. Plus, USMDs compete for the same spots as CMGs, whereas IMGs have reserved spots that CMGs and USMDs aren't even eligible for.

On the flip side, this has allowed CMGs to use the same strategy that USMDs used to use by applying only for competitive programs in the US that they would want over any Canadian program. I know there were quite a few from Toronto this year who matched to Harvard/MGH/Brigham/other highly coveted US programs. This would've been way too risky in the past when CaRMS was first, since to have a chance at matching in the US, you had to be unmatched in CaRMS.

[Edict]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:49 PM, carmsinoid said:

On the flip side, this has allowed CMGs to use the same strategy that USMDs used to use by applying only for competitive programs in the US that they would want over any Canadian program. I know there were quite a few from Toronto this year who matched to Harvard/MGH/Brigham/other highly coveted US programs. This would've been way too risky in the past when CaRMS was first, since to have a chance at matching in the US, you had to be unmatched in CaRMS.

Talk about a once in a generation opportunity 

[ChemPetE]

On 5/23/2022 at 12:51 PM, Edict said:

Talk about a once in a generation opportunity 

True that. But also I know a few people who went there for fellowships. Heck, was as easy as pointing them out ti them and saying, why don’t you apply? It also doesn’t mean those are the ‘best’ residencies, even if they are well known names. The US is a different beast than canada.

[Edict]

6 hours ago, ChemPetE said:

True that. But also I know a few people who went there for fellowships. Heck, was as easy as pointing them out ti them and saying, why don’t you apply? It also doesn’t mean those are the ‘best’ residencies, even if they are well known names. The US is a different beast than canada.

No for sure, but also depending on the dynamics of the fellowship, some are less competitive than others. For example, fellowships that aren't "required", don't place any demand on scarce resources and are not necessary for locals, are usually not competitive even at big name centers, because you essentially provide cheap labour.

On the other hand though, residencies are competitive because they are core aspects of training that you have to outcompete local students to get.