silvermen85 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Pre-meds everywhere do have bad reputations in the eyes of both other students and profs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolie121 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Pre-meds everywhere do have bad reputations in the eyes of both other students and profs. That is so true, it's kinda frustrating to be honest but I guess there's nothing we can really do about it. I mean, no matter how many of us are honest and genuinely good people there are always gonna be the few fanatics who sabotage others and make the rest of us look bad. Ah well. On a side note, how do you think people like that do in the interviews? I wonder how good adcoms are at picking them out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobynM Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 On a side note, how do you think people like that do in the interviews? I wonder how good adcoms are at picking them out... I like to think that with a lot of schools switching over to the MMI these people with questionable morals really will be selected against a little bit. So many of the MMI scenarios involve moral reasoning and ethical dilemmas so the people that think it's ok to sabotage and steal to get ahead would probably answer pretty differently than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree999 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I like to think that with a lot of schools switching over to the MMI these people with questionable morals really will be selected against a little bit. So many of the MMI scenarios involve moral reasoning and ethical dilemmas so the people that think it's ok to sabotage and steal to get ahead would probably answer pretty differently than anyone else. Hmmm... but the people who are manipulative enough to pull these pre-med stunts are also the people who lie in interviews!! I'm sure they could find a way to get through an MMI, and maybe even change the question on the door to sabotage other MMI-ers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I like to think that with a lot of schools switching over to the MMI these people with questionable morals really will be selected against a little bit. So many of the MMI scenarios involve moral reasoning and ethical dilemmas so the people that think it's ok to sabotage and steal to get ahead would probably answer pretty differently than anyone else. I think the role playing exercises are even better at that - you can learn to deal with the ethics questions, but try actually confronting someone who has a serious problem with something and helping them. Harder to practise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 The MMI process is a great equalizer. If they are able to fool the process, well good for them, but I doubt they will be able to do so. Sh't rises to the surface and these people will be found out in the system. They are better off going to study law and become politicians where integrity is only a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alnew Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Crazy premeds. I haven't had anyone sabotage me directly but I do recall fierce competition in my orgo labs. People refusing to let you borrow supplies, like matches, purposely giving others wrong answers to mundane questions. It was pathetic. I find this kind of behaviour to be a lot more common among first/second years. Most people mellow out third year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Most people mellow out third year... Or fail out - putting that much stress on things eventually causes many of people to blow a gasket at some point. They just get worn out.... "Very few people can be totally ruthless, it takes more strength than one can imagine...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 My brother at UofT had his first year physics lab sabotaged by a gang of premeds. When I was in first year, a random person from my bio lecture facebooked me and asked to photocopy my notes for $50. I said sure but if we do it together because I don't know her. She said no, she'd get it done super fast at Kinko's and drop it back to me in my res room. It sounded sketch so I said no. Turns out I was right as she was going around doing that scam to steal people's bio notes so they'd fail! I'm surprised you (or someone else) didn't report this. It's almost certainly a violation of academic integrity and grounds to kick someone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 WTF is wrong with people? These people must be very, very desperate or even psychopathic to even consider doing that sh*t to other students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostLamb Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I am not surprised at all by the things I've read in this thread. I know of more than one person who has done less than honest things to get ahead...and they are now doing residency, while i am still trying to get into med school. I don't want to disclose the things done, but some bordered on the type of things that could have gotten them expelled, and they were different from what has been documented on the thread. Would I switch places and be where they are? No thanks, I'd rather be able to live with myself than stab people in the back/lie/cheat and have to live with that on my conscience forever. However, I feel badly for the patients who cross these people's path. I cringe at the thought that lives are in their hands. There will always be people who by having no scruples get ahead, and there will always be people who by honest hard work and dedication can also get ahead. I figure that some day that those with no scruples will get what's coming to them. As the saying says: what goes around comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I wonder if there's a correlation between gender and the people who sabotage other premeds. Since, in general peer relation dynamics, boys are more overtly aggressive while girls are more relationally aggressive, does that mean more girls sabotage others than guys? From the stories I've read in this thread, it always seems that girls are the one who are backstabbing others or trying to make others fail. It's just something interesting to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I wonder if there's a correlation between gender and the people who sabotage other premeds. I'm not sexist, though I do think there is a correlation. I haven't seen any of these crazy premeds yet, but "high marks" girls tend to be on defensive when they learn I'm going to apply in medicine. They hide their results, refuse to be helped, say they would fail, but gets 90s, etc. Boys tend to enjoy the competition (even if I don't), and have no trouble correcting each others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Wow all of these stories are awful, I can't see people purposely sabotaging others but I suppose they must. Personally, I've never had a problem giving anyone who wants them my notes from class. I was going to be there anyway to take notes so its not like it takes anything away from me to give it to them. If they choose to not go to class I don't really care, whatever works for them, as I feel that I personally wouldn't grasp material as well simply from notes as I would from going to class but other people its probably different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 How does MMI help sort out these horror premeds better than regular interviews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobynM Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think the MMI is harder to bulls** because the questions are designed to catch you off guard. Since you really don't know what they're going to ask you you can't really prepare any answers. Also, because you have to sit there and answer each question for 8 minutes straight even if you were able to have a certain amount of prepared answers eventually I think your true opinions would come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 i don't think anyone who has true negative opinions would just "let them come out" in an interview setting. they know better than to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 There are actually people who do these things but honestly think there's nothing wrong with it, so I do believe that SOME of these people do get noticed at interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 i don't think anyone who has true negative opinions would just "let them come out" in an interview setting. they know better than to do that. Wisdow is noticed in these kinds of interview. These people don't have wisdom, and probabilities are that they have low socialization skills as well. Trust me, they score poor MMIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewfieMike Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Trust me, they score poor MMIs. You have completely sold me with your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rarkon Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Someone please tell me this stories are made up. There is no way people could backstab this much and still think they would be good doctors. I mean on some level they must know what they are doing is wrong....right? RIGHT?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbjones Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Someone please tell me this stories are made up. There is no way people could backstab this much and still think they would be good doctors. I mean on some level they must know what they are doing is wrong....right? RIGHT?!?! Its hard to believe people would be capable of doing such things. Luckily, I have never encountered anything like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I started this thread half-knowing that there were some bad apples here and there. But some of these stories, man. I mean, they're doing the exact opposite of what a doctor should be doing in order to become one. Frankly, that boggles the mind. Also, stealing notes and spitting on cupcakes are just petty and should be dealt with a hypercombo. Preferrably with a Hadouken somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost__in__space Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I'm surprised you (or someone else) didn't report this. It's almost certainly a violation of academic integrity and grounds to kick someone out. I didn't confirm my suspicions until many a week later when I heard what was happening in class. By that time her facebook had poofed into nothingness, she probably used a fake name and it wasn't like I ever met the person in real life so I knew how she looked. It bothered me for a long time after that I could have fell for her trap and lost all my year's notes (which were all hand written as I didn't have a laptop at the time)! As an aside, regarding cheating, at Western I have personally seen it during exams a bunch of times. One time was during first year chem when Prof. Felix Lee caught someone, actually took the guy's paper, put a big red X through it and ripped it in half in front of the guy's face!! Another time was two douchebags in my classics class who were HAVING A CONVERSATION the entire exam and the ridiculous proctors didn't even notice!!! they were full up talking, chatting and laughing!! people kept turning around and glaring and they didn't even care. I was the one to report them out of like 20 people around who could hear them. I don't know what happened to them because I reported them as I left (and yes I could have reported them much earlier than that but my first priority was finishing in time and it'd be nice not to be the super obvious tattle tale in the crowd as I sat like right next to them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You have completely sold me with your argument. You think these kinds of premeds are better than you to defend an ethic question ? I can't answer for you, but I guess most people can do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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