CaRMS 2019 Prelim Data

[shakeshake]

https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2019-R-1-2-data-snapshot.pdf

31 unmatched CMGs, + 36 who chose not to participate in round 2. Lowest unmatched rate in many years - I guess the political pressure worked to an extent.

Can we do better? Or is this as good as it gets?

[stoich]

Can someone explain the IMG data? There are 117 who matched and 117 who didn't match? That doesnt sound right. Thanks

[hero147]

https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2019-CaRMS-Forum-data.pdf

Fewer unmatched CMGs but less and less CMGs are matching to their top 3.

[GrouchoMarx]

This is still not a good result.

Carms is restrictive. it is a government run lottery that often forces you to take a career you dont want all while telling you to be grateful for them giving you the opportunity.

screw that. USMLE

[indefatigable]

4 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

This is still not a good result.

Carms is restrictive. it is a government run lottery that often forces you to take a career you dont want all while telling you to be grateful for them giving you the opportunity.

screw that. USMLE

Trying too hard to match to very competitive US specialties from Canada and potentially decreasing CaRMs matching opportunities, makes even less sense.  I think it's  better to have an informed opinion of the US after having spent time there, as a non-US citizen.

[GrouchoMarx]

9 hours ago, tere said:

Trying too hard to match to very competitive US specialties from Canada and potentially decreasing CaRMs matching opportunities, makes even less sense.  I think it's  better to have an informed opinion of the US after having spent time there, as a non-US citizen.

The only major hurdle to overcome in the US match is the USMLE. Once that is done, an application rests on its own merits. Doing away rotations, which is the norm here in Canada, is not expected in the states. Beyond the USMLE, which is best prepared for in the preclerkship years, and some monetary costs, I can't see how preparing a US app would be detrimental to success in carms.

[indefatigable]

4 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

The only major hurdle to overcome in the US match is the USMLE. Once that is done, an application rests on its own merits. Doing away rotations, which is the norm here in Canada, is not expected in the states. Beyond the USMLE, which is best prepared for in the preclerkship years, and some monetary costs, I can't see how preparing a US app would be detrimental to success in carms.

Lots of research demands in very competitive US specialties - a research year is much more common.  Spending all spare time on the USMLE Step 1 would mean having less of a foot in CaRMs (in terms of networking, researching..) - and then as a non-US citizen, at every level, one would be behind any equivalent American citizen.  Maybe if pre-clerkship at the school is both similar to the US curriculum and not very time demanding, then it would be possible - neither of those conditions was fulfilled at my faculty.  

Very competitive US specialties are filled with USMGs - one would have to have a more competitive application in terms of scores, research, etc in order to get a residency position and be preferred over a US citizen.  

Plus American electives would be preferred for US PDs vs Canadian electives.  So there would definitely need to be sacrifice.

USMG gun for Step 1 from day 1 - it's not a past-time for them, and they are learning that material in their med school.  

It's an even more extreme form of IP vs OOP - sure some people are accepted as OOP, but most are accepted as IP.  

[shakeshake]

I think you'd have to be pretty happy *practicing* in the states to be applying to residency programs there. Life doesn't stop after CaRMS, and my sense is most people in Canada do eventually end up where they train. It's one thing to go to the states for a fellowship (or two) and bring back some expertise to the centre you trained (and made connections at), and it's a whole other thing to do residency in the US and find a job here. Connections seem to be king in Canada, CaRMS and beyond, for most specialties.

[la marzocco]

It is probably going to be as good as it is gonna get. Bear in mind that there were 53 additional spots Ontario created last year after 2nd iteration to clear the unmatched backlog. This meant less unmatched CMG from prior years applying to the 2019 match - i.e., less snowballing. Also, Ontario, Alberta, and Manitoba kept the streaming in the 2nd iteration so this is also + since stats have shown that in 2nd iteration many IMGs match to previously CMG-designated spots. 

My guess is that for the 2020 match, the unmatched numbers will go up again unless something meaningful is done - *COUGH* increase residency spots.

[ChemPetE]

Really medical school spots need to decrease... the government has proven time and time again there is no appetite to fund extra residency spots. And if there are unemployed specialists, just decrease then medical students that they train. Premeds will freak, but that is the solution to this...

[indefatigable]

.

[ChemPetE]

Oh totally see that’s how we’ve gotten into this. I didn’t say the health minister would love it :p

 

Having looked at the data, I would hate to be the person doing up 101 applications to match 25 down. But that might be success for them. Ooph.

not positive trends here.

But rad onc is getting more in demand. All filled, somewhat competitive, and there are more and more jobs opening up. Good for that field at least. 

And holy hell are people applying to emerge in droves still. 

I didnt look look specifically at this but looks DI apps were down, and vascular too.

[indefatigable]

55 minutes ago, ChemPetE said:

Oh totally see that’s how we’ve gotten into this. I didn’t say the health minister would love it :p

Having looked at the data, I would hate to be the person doing up 101 applications to match 25 down. But that might be success for them. Ooph.

not positive trends here.

But rad onc is getting more in demand. All filled, somewhat competitive, and there are more and more jobs opening up. Good for that field at least. 

And holy hell are people applying to emerge in droves still. 

I didnt look look specifically at this but looks DI apps were down, and vascular too.

Haha - for sure:).   

Vasc surg from this summary year data was actually non-competitive.  OTOH peds and neurosurg were more competitive than anesth & ENT!  (slide 47-8).  

I know other forum members also usually crunch the numbers differently - odd year!

[peace2014]

On 4/15/2019 at 7:03 PM, GrouchoMarx said:

This is still not a good result.

Carms is restrictive. it is a government run lottery that often forces you to take a career you dont want all while telling you to be grateful for them giving you the opportunity.

screw that. USMLE

 

23 hours ago, tere said:

Trying too hard to match to very competitive US specialties from Canada and potentially decreasing CaRMs matching opportunities, makes even less sense.  I think it's  better to have an informed opinion of the US after having spent time there, as a non-US citizen.

Completely agree, getting US citizenship/green card is a huge hurdle. But let's not forget that there are way more doors that can open for you if you match to a US residency program. More desirable locations to practice, opportunities in industry (pharma, banking, consulting....) not to mention you can still come back to Canada to practice. Either way it is a risk you have to take, the US residency program or stuck in a poor location and staying there for the rest of your life. 

[indefatigable]

21 minutes ago, peace2014 said:

Completely agree, getting US citizenship/green card is a huge hurdle. But let's not forget that there are way more doors that can open for you if you match to a US residency program. More desirable locations to practice, opportunities in industry (pharma, banking, consulting....) not to mention you can still come back to Canada to practice. Either way it is a risk you have to take, the US residency program or stuck in a poor location and staying there for the rest of your life. 

There's mobility before (sometimes during) and after residency, but less when you have a staff job.  Coming back to Canada after the US isn't so easy for many specialties.  US has many undesirable locations - so no location guarantee there either.  It really depends what you're looking for as shakeshake suggests.

[hero147]

1 hour ago, ChemPetE said:

Oh totally see that’s how we’ve gotten into this. I didn’t say the health minister would love it :p

 

Having looked at the data, I would hate to be the person doing up 101 applications to match 25 down. But that might be success for them. Ooph.

not positive trends here.

But rad onc is getting more in demand. All filled, somewhat competitive, and there are more and more jobs opening up. Good for that field at least. 

And holy hell are people applying to emerge in droves still. 

I didnt look look specifically at this but looks DI apps were down, and vascular too.

Someone ended up matchign to their 35th choice. Oof. Hopefully that's due to them ranking multiple family sites at each location. For diagnostic radiology, it came to me as a surprise. Talking to some of the rads residents, they said there seemed to be some renewed interest this year, but I guess not.

[xiphoid]

11 minutes ago, hero147 said:

Someone ended up matchign to their 35th choice. Oof. Hopefully that's due to them ranking multiple family sites at each location.

I'm still processing that a couple got their 288th combination. Like I know couples will have a much longer rank list and will tend to match lower on the list, but just even having a 288th rank...

[RichardHammond]

Wow do you even congratulate someone for matching to their 288th choice or offer your sympathy

[2019CaRMS]

12 hours ago, RichardHammond said:

Wow do you even congratulate someone for matching to their 288th choice or offer your sympathy

Damn is this the neuropathologist Richard Hammond? If so man you were awesome to chat with at interviews! I kind of regret not ranking Western NP higher but I'm still happy I ended up in my first choice discipline

[RichardHammond]

45 minutes ago, 2019CaRMS said:

Damn is this the neuropathologist Richard Hammond? If so man you were awesome to chat with at interviews! I kind of regret not ranking Western NP higher but I'm still happy I ended up in my first choice discipline

Hey! I remember you! You're the candidate we didn't rank.

 

 

jk that wasn't me. That was Dr. Robert Hammond.

[garlic]

16 hours ago, hero147 said:

Someone ended up matchign to their 35th choice. Oof. Hopefully that's due to them ranking multiple family sites at each location. For diagnostic radiology, it came to me as a surprise. Talking to some of the rads residents, they said there seemed to be some renewed interest this year, but I guess not.

From what I understand, the quality of applicants was very high this year, even if numbers were not impressive - so many people still did not get their first or second choices.

[adrenergic24]

On 4/11/2019 at 8:08 AM, stoich said:

Can someone explain the IMG data? There are 117 who matched and 117 who didn't match? That doesnt sound right. Thanks

As far as I can tell, this stat is only for 'current-year graduates'. In the vast majority of cases, this probably means CSAs (Canadians studying abroad). If you look at previous-year graduates (more likely to represent true IMGs), the numbers are significantly lower.

[WeDayDream]

Do these stats change a lot year after year?