Med School as a single mom- possible?

[MaudeB]

Hello all! 

I'm wondering if med school is doable as a single mom of kids in elementary school... Anyone did it or know anybody who did it? I do not have a lot of support, grandparents and extended family are still working or live 3-6 hours away. With the clerkship and residency schedules, I am trying to see how to make it possible. I would go for a family medicine residency.

Obviously my children are my top priority.

I would love your insight on this!

Thank you so much!

 

[dooogs]

I think it's possible but you may have to be ready to spend $$ on daycare or nannies. If you dont have financial support that may mean higher LOC than other students. Also depends on the location of the school and its tuition. If you can find a cheap location/school combo

I've heard of people having kids in med school but they had support 

[MaudeB]

1 hour ago, dooogs said:

I think it's possible but you may have to be ready to spend $$ on daycare or nannies. If you dont have financial support that may mean higher LOC than other students. Also depends on the location of the school and its tuition. If you can find a cheap location/school combo

I've heard of people having kids in med school but they had support 

Thanks for your input @dooogs. Hiring a nanny is something I would definitively need to consider, since I might not be able to get my kids to and from school everyday because of the schedule. I am wondering if the stress of it all is worth it in the end. I really want to go to med school but it might be a bad idea without a support system. I am also considering other options as pharmacy (but heard that jobs prospect are low), PT or OT. I am very unsure of what to do.

Did you go through clerkship or residency? How was it? The schedule? The info on this is hard to find!!

Thanks again!!

[blah1234]

Yea, it's going to be very hard without a support system. You'll need nannys which can be expensive over time. Also, how will call work? I've only heard of medical exceptions for reduced call requirements. Will you be able to trust your child with hired help overnight while you work?

I personally could not imagine having children during my medical training but I know people in much busier setups (e.g. 2 surgery residents) somehow raising a child so it must be possible somehow. Although perhaps it's a lot of hidden support structures and paid help that I don't see overtly.

I wish I had more concrete advice but it's a stressful time to undergo medical training and while it was worth it for me and others I don't want to soften the challenge you'll face in those years.

[rmorelan]

2 hours ago, MaudeB said:

Thanks for your input @dooogs. Hiring a nanny is something I would definitively need to consider, since I might not be able to get my kids to and from school everyday because of the schedule. I am wondering if the stress of it all is worth it in the end. I really want to go to med school but it might be a bad idea without a support system. I am also considering other options as pharmacy (but heard that jobs prospect are low), PT or OT. I am very unsure of what to do.

Did you go through clerkship or residency? How was it? The schedule? The info on this is hard to find!!

Thanks again!!

I will say that schools can be very accommodating for things like this and there are usually ways to make things work in the end. Many schools for preclerkship also have a lot of the lectures recorded which can add flexibility. They will be parts of clerkship that will be more challenging - but hiring a nanny for that in particular is possible. While spending the LOC is still money to be paid back at least there is a pool of resources there. 

like blah1234 I know people that have had done this or had children in med school. It won't be easy and you shouldn't be shielded from that fact but it is possible. 

[MaudeB]

7 hours ago, blah1234 said:

Yea, it's going to be very hard without a support system. You'll need nannys which can be expensive over time. Also, how will call work? I've only heard of medical exceptions for reduced call requirements. Will you be able to trust your child with hired help overnight while you work?

I personally could not imagine having children during my medical training but I know people in much busier setups (e.g. 2 surgery residents) somehow raising a child so it must be possible somehow. Although perhaps it's a lot of hidden support structures and paid help that I don't see overtly.

I wish I had more concrete advice but it's a stressful time to undergo medical training and while it was worth it for me and others I don't want to soften the challenge you'll face in those years.

Thanks so much @blah1234 for your insight! This is exactly what I am wondering, how I would make call work, find the time to study, while still being present and spend quality time with my kids. I feel like I don't know enough, past the pre-clekship phase, to make a clear decision! 

How was your clerkship? I would love to know! In the Qc province, clerkship seems to be max 72 hours/week from what I read, but I don't know if its 72 hours every week for every rotations. I find the clerkship and residency experience are very opaque from my outsider point of view! I would love more details!!

 

 

[MaudeB]

6 hours ago, rmorelan said:

I will say that schools can be very accommodating for things like this and there are usually ways to make things work in the end. Many schools for preclerkship also have a lot of the lectures recorded which can add flexibility. They will be parts of clerkship that will be more challenging - but hiring a nanny for that in particular is possible. While spending the LOC is still money to be paid back at least there is a pool of resources there. 

like blah1234 I know people that have had done this or had children in med school. It won't be easy and you shouldn't be shielded from that fact but it is possible. 

Thanks @rmorelan! I am wondering what kind of accomodation schools can offer? Do you have any example that could help me have a better idea of the med school experience? You know people who went trough med school as a single parent? Was it worth it for them? I wish I could have gone to med school in my younger years!! I know some people that did it but they had a very supportive partner that took care of the family and were happy to do it. 

Obviously I would not want to have special treatment over other students, but I wish med schools were more flexible in the training schedule... If clerkship could be done over a longer period of time, as well as residency, with the same amount of training in the end. I feel the extremely demanding schedule and training makes it very difficult for older applicants to go in the field...

I really want to be realist with my decision. Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it!

[blah1234]

2 hours ago, MaudeB said:

Thanks so much @blah1234 for your insight! This is exactly what I am wondering, how I would make call work, find the time to study, while still being present and spend quality time with my kids. I feel like I don't know enough, past the pre-clekship phase, to make a clear decision! 

How was your clerkship? I would love to know! In the Qc province, clerkship seems to be max 72 hours/week from what I read, but I don't know if its 72 hours every week for every rotations. I find the clerkship and residency experience are very opaque from my outsider point of view! I would love more details!!

 

 

Clerkship was busy because you had very little control and you had to complete your tasks while studying for relevant exams. While some rotations were less busy (e.g. family medicine) you are still looking at having to rotate through fields such as CTU, General Surgery, where you are expected to do overnight call which can get quite busy. While you do get that post-call day I found I needed it to recover. Weekends were also needed often to study to improve knowledge but also to prepare for exams.

Residency was similar as it was a combination of busy and non-busy rotations but factor in research and exams it is much harder than clerkship. However, I will note that you are interested in family medicine which is much more reasonable compared to a specialist residency. You will still likely find it hard to balance work, study, and family.

I'm honestly not sure if that 72 hour max was a thing when I was a clerk or resident but I often worked more than that without factoring in studying. I did have weeks or months where things were a more normal pace however I don't think you should ever expect a true 9-5 for a while.

I think it will be a huge challenge and you will feel the strain of trying to juggle every ball. Frankly, the medical establishment is very uncaring at times and won't be considerate of your personal situation. I think you can find champions to support you but also be prepared for that.

[ceelbe]

I can’t provide any insight unfortunately because I haven’t applied to med yet but if ever you want a buddy to chat with then message me. I’m not a single mom but I am a mom of 3 young kids and live in Quebec and hoping to apply to med for the first time this upcoming fall  

[MaudeB]

41 minutes ago, ceelbe said:

I can’t provide any insight unfortunately because I haven’t applied to med yet but if ever you want a buddy to chat with then message me. I’m not a single mom but I am a mom of 3 young kids and live in Quebec and hoping to apply to med for the first time this upcoming fall  

Thanks @ceelbe! Good luck on your application! I will keep in touch for sure!!

[ChemPetE]

I had a single mom in my med school class. I won't speak to her situation, and I think she had a very supportive and involved family, but she's now a very talented and sought-after subspecialty physician. And her daughter is well-adjusted and awesome from what i've heard, too. So you can absolutely come out of the system meeting your goals. I wouldn't let it stop you.

[JohnGrisham]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:51 AM, MaudeB said:

Thanks for your input @dooogs. Hiring a nanny is something I would definitively need to consider, since I might not be able to get my kids to and from school everyday because of the schedule. I am wondering if the stress of it all is worth it in the end. I really want to go to med school but it might be a bad idea without a support system. I am also considering other options as pharmacy (but heard that jobs prospect are low), PT or OT. I am very unsure of what to do.

Did you go through clerkship or residency? How was it? The schedule? The info on this is hard to find!!

Thanks again!!

Sounds like you will be mostly relying on yourself, as you don't have much family support. I can not imagine how difficult that would be - seeing many colleagues who did medicine/residency with kids in 2 parent families..but having lots of family support.

First two years (textbook) phase can be more doable(but meaning you will need to study a lot after the kids are put to bed and that  your attention will take away from the kids), but definitely 3rd/4th year you will need a lot of nanny support - which is going to be extremely expensive. I guess it also depends how old your elementary kids are - and if they are getting more self-sufficient? Presumably you work a "9-5" job right now to support yourselves. The hours will just be a lot more.

While you can get some concessions from the schools, don't count on it - and be prepared for a lot of lack of control throughout the whole process.

I would strongly consider Nursing, PT or OT - as a means to get into healthcare, and get well paid careers with much more flexibility than medicine and the training process to ultimately become a FM docs as you stated.

It is possible, but will require a lot of planning(logistics), discussions with the kids to see what their thoughts are, and as well financial planning (luckily generally can get large LOCs in canada, but still need to do the math for live-in nanny care etc).
 

[blah1234]

1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said:

Sounds like you will be mostly relying on yourself, as you don't have much family support. I can not imagine how difficult that would be - seeing many colleagues who did medicine/residency with kids in 2 parent families..but having lots of family support.

First two years (textbook) phase can be more doable(but meaning you will need to study a lot after the kids are put to bed and that  your attention will take away from the kids), but definitely 3rd/4th year you will need a lot of nanny support - which is going to be extremely expensive. I guess it also depends how old your elementary kids are - and if they are getting more self-sufficient? Presumably you work a "9-5" job right now to support yourselves. The hours will just be a lot more.

While you can get some concessions from the schools, don't count on it - and be prepared for a lot of lack of control throughout the whole process.

I would strongly consider Nursing, PT or OT - as a means to get into healthcare, and get well paid careers with much more flexibility than medicine and the training process to ultimately become a FM docs as you stated.

It is possible, but will require a lot of planning(logistics), discussions with the kids to see what their thoughts are, and as well financial planning (luckily generally can get large LOCs in canada, but still need to do the math for live-in nanny care etc).
 

Depending on the cost of nannies and how long you need them, the financial advantage of being a FM vs another HC profession like nursing becomes more blurred. It may become a question of how much this dream of yours matters to you and how much you value time with your children both in the near-term (training) and the long-term (staff life). It may be worth mapping out all the logistics before you commit to starting to see how easy it is to find & pay for the support you need for your children.

[bearded frog]

2 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

I would strongly consider Nursing, PT or OT - as a means to get into healthcare, and get well paid careers with much more flexibility than medicine and the training process to ultimately become a FM docs as you stated.

No offence at all, but OP should not discount medicine if that's what she wants to do. Allied health is definitely a reasonable career, with generally less intensive training, but I don't think actually practising as a nurse vs family medicine is any easier. Many nurses do shift work which includes nights, whereas after residency, most family docs can easily have practices limited to home call, if any. Having a 9-5 practice as a GP with a higher income than full time shift work I think would be a much better home-life balance.

The hurdle is getting through the 5-6 years of medical school and family med residency. To OP, I would say that honestly everyone has challenges with work/life during medical school in residency. Some people have lots of family support, some have none at all, others are supporting children, parents, etc. I think having kids in elementary school makes things a little more straightforward as if you find after-school care then most days will not have issues. We had moms bring their babies to class in my medical school and it was totally fine BTW. Call requirements during second half of medical school and residency will be more complicated, and require a nanny for those nights, unless you make close friends who are willing to look after your kids overnight, but again more reasonable than with a toddler, for instance.

Honestly, medicine needs more single moms/dads, and other non-traditional applicants. It will be a challenge and only you know if you are up to it, but medicine is still heavily skewed away from people like you, and I hope that if you do choose medications your school/program would accommodate you to a reasonable extent to make it possible.

[JohnGrisham]

8 hours ago, bearded frog said:

No offence at all, but OP should not discount medicine if that's what she wants to do. Allied health is definitely a reasonable career, with generally less intensive training, but I don't think actually practising as a nurse vs family medicine is any easier. Many nurses do shift work which includes nights, whereas after residency, most family docs can easily have practices limited to home call, if any. Having a 9-5 practice as a GP with a higher income than full time shift work I think would be a much better home-life balance.

The hurdle is getting through the 5-6 years of medical school and family med residency. To OP, I would say that honestly everyone has challenges with work/life during medical school in residency. Some people have lots of family support, some have none at all, others are supporting children, parents, etc. I think having kids in elementary school makes things a little more straightforward as if you find after-school care then most days will not have issues. We had moms bring their babies to class in my medical school and it was totally fine BTW. Call requirements during second half of medical school and residency will be more complicated, and require a nanny for those nights, unless you make close friends who are willing to look after your kids overnight, but again more reasonable than with a toddler, for instance.

Honestly, medicine needs more single moms/dads, and other non-traditional applicants. It will be a challenge and only you know if you are up to it, but medicine is still heavily skewed away from people like you, and I hope that if you do choose medications your school/program would accommodate you to a reasonable extent to make it possible.

Yes, my main point was that enlisting for medical school and residency for 6 years is a big undertaking without any support (based on what the OP has presented, they are pretty much on their own. Again if this is not the case, then it can help favourable for this goal of medicine), and not to forget we are all assuming they are already a competitive applicant and haven't taken into account time to do the MCAT, buff grades(if applicable) and buff non-academics(if applicable).

Doing a 2 year accelerated nursing program and practicing as a nurse is infinitely easier route than 6 years of medicine/residency, when you factor in the significant time away from kids.  Nursing shift-work is often very flexible, go into a 0.5 set line and pick up shifts whenever you want. Increase workload as the kids get older, and move into other roles (admin, nurse practitioner etc) for even more pay. Some provinces have Nurse Practitioners that are closing the gap with FM and for OP, this is something strongly to consider. I have many loved ones in nursing, and the flexibility is great. That's all, just wanted to put that as a potential option. Similar with OT and PT - again only 2 years of commitment for the period of "lack of control".  2 years versus 6 is a big difference when you take into account growing children. Again, maybe the OPs kids are 10+ and its less of an issue, something to think about.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" - only OP knows their situation and what they think their family can handle. I would 100% want them to pursue their passion of medicine and we need more non-traditional representation. But i'm not going to paint rosy pictures of the process of medical school and residency. Medical schools can only accomodate so much for clerkship and residency - Yes staff life as a FM doc is very much in your control and much better in hours and $ than an RN - but you have to go through 6 years of lack of control and long hours to get there.  The financial costs associated with it are somewhat buffered by access to govt loans, bursaries and LOC - but debt will definitely be large. Logistics and nannies are a huge cost that shouldn't be understated - raising kids is a full-time job on its own, so if OP is studying and going after their MD, they will need support, and it seems the support they will have access to is via paid support.

[lefttheforum]

-

[MDee2B]

On 2/8/2021 at 8:13 AM, alex686 said:

hi Maude! i was in elementary school when my single mom immigrated and redid her whole doctorate and residency (she was an infectious deseases specialist, with fellowship in HIV in our east European country), but she did choose family medicine instead of infectious diseases (2 years vs 5+ for the same speciality) to shorten her education a bit. She doesn't regret her choice of switching at all, she thinks its the best decision she ever made. (also she had to learn a new language to study in, so it was not an easy ride) We didn't have family here either (8h plane distance), but when you're in med school, there is so much support for students who need help, I'm sure you'll find a way. doing your studies won't stop you from providing amazing care to your child, I know it didn't for me  just explain the situation well to the child, and be alert in case something is wrong, just in case. personally, I supported her a lot and never felt left out! although were children, we understand how important it is for the family, and we get independent and ressourcefull quickly if we need help for simple tasks every day. I know it made me very creative in when I had things to do and such hahaha

fun fact, I'm currently applying to medicine this year, to the same schools my mom went when she redid her studies in canada, so I hope the stars align for me as well <3 

That’s a great story @alex686.

One thing I would also want to mention to OP for consideration:

What are your employment options, just in case the med route goes sour (ie you start med school and after a couple of months/years you find it to be too much of a strain on yourself/your family and abandon your studies)?

Can you return to your old job easily? Will it be hard to find a new job? Can you organize a sabbatical from your job for the first year of med school, in case you drop out you have a fall back plan/ a job to return to?

Without dependents, I don’t think these questions would matter as much. But with dependents in the picture, I think it’s especially important to carefully consider all scenarios.

[bearded frog]

18 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

words

I absolutely agree with you. Medicine is not for everyone, and if someone thinks its not worth it, totally fine to do something else. Sacraficing a good portion of your life to the grind is a lot easier when you're young and have no commitments, for sure. The point I'm trying to make is that with all else being equal, if medicine is what she wants to do, it might be harder for her than her classmates but it's totally possible as a single mom.

[JohnGrisham]

17 hours ago, bearded frog said:

I absolutely agree with you. Medicine is not for everyone, and if someone thinks its not worth it, totally fine to do something else. Sacraficing a good portion of your life to the grind is a lot easier when you're young and have no commitments, for sure. The point I'm trying to make is that with all else being equal, if medicine is what she wants to do, it might be harder for her than her classmates but it's totally possible as a single mom.

Definitely - and this is why i enjoy contributing to this forum, multiple view points help round out discussion!  I will say that i am biased towards pessimism on this specific topic, given the lack of support the medical school system has shown some of my colleagues with children, and seeing how much work taking care of two young children is for a single parent caregiver.  Definitely don't want to discourage OP, but rather ensure they get the most facts possible about the process through medical school to residency before embarking on the road of working towards pre-reqs etc.

 

[blah1234]

25 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Definitely - and this is why i enjoy contributing to this forum, multiple view points help round out discussion!  I will say that i am biased towards pessimism on this specific topic, given the lack of support the medical school system has shown some of my colleagues with children, and seeing how much work taking care of two young children is for a single parent caregiver.  Definitely don't want to discourage OP, but rather ensure they get the most facts possible about the process through medical school to residency before embarking on the road of working towards pre-reqs etc.

 

I agree with erring on the side of pessimism. I think there are a lot of supportive champions in medical school but the system as a whole has not historically helped students with various struggles. I would not anticipate getting special treatment just because you are a single parent.

[bearded frog]

I think the fact that we are pessimistic behooves us, as medical students, residents, staff, to do what we can to change the culture to make us not so pessimistic.

[JohnGrisham]

1 hour ago, bearded frog said:

I think the fact that we are pessimistic behooves us, as medical students, residents, staff, to do what we can to change the culture to make us not so pessimistic.

I agree, but often its not the medical professionals that make the difference - it is university salaried administrative staff that make the majority of decisions and day to day activities, maybe somewhat steered by semi-salaried administrative MDs who often aren't quite in touch with students needs.

I'm pessimistic that the system set in place will be a guaranteed boon of support, so it would be pragmatic to assume average to none in terms of special supports.  Unless its legislated(like maternity leave, or pregnancy leave and change of duties), then i wouldn't go in making a huge life decision "assuming the best". 

[MaudeB]

On 2/5/2021 at 12:47 PM, blah1234 said:

Yea, it's going to be very hard without a support system. You'll need nannys which can be expensive over time. Also, how will call work? I've only heard of medical exceptions for reduced call requirements. Will you be able to trust your child with hired help overnight while you work?

I personally could not imagine having children during my medical training but I know people in much busier setups (e.g. 2 surgery residents) somehow raising a child so it must be possible somehow. Although perhaps it's a lot of hidden support structures and paid help that I don't see overtly.

I wish I had more concrete advice but it's a stressful time to undergo medical training and while it was worth it for me and others I don't want to soften the challenge you'll face in those years.

Thanks @blah1234, a dose of reality is exactly what I need to make this decision!!

[MaudeB]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:13 AM, alex686 said:

hi Maude! i was in elementary school when my single mom immigrated and redid her whole doctorate and residency (she was an infectious deseases specialist, with fellowship in HIV in our east European country), but she did choose family medicine instead of infectious diseases (2 years vs 5+ for the same speciality) to shorten her education a bit. She doesn't regret her choice of switching at all, she thinks its the best decision she ever made. (also she had to learn a new language to study in, so it was not an easy ride) We didn't have family here either (8h plane distance), but when you're in med school, there is so much support for students who need help, I'm sure you'll find a way. doing your studies won't stop you from providing amazing care to your child, I know it didn't for me  just explain the situation well to the child, and be alert in case something is wrong, just in case. personally, I supported her a lot and never felt left out! although were children, we understand how important it is for the family, and we get independent and ressourcefull quickly if we need help for simple tasks every day. I know it made me very creative in when I had things to do and such hahaha

fun fact, I'm currently applying to medicine this year, to the same schools my mom went when she redid her studies in canada, so I hope the stars align for me as well <3 

@alex686, your mom is extremely inspiring! Thanks for sharing! Its wonderful that you had a great experience through your mom med school training! This is what is concerning me the most, its important for me to have quality time with my kids and that they feel they are my top priority!  Goodluck on your med school application! Where did you apply to? Its such an exciting time!

[AB.Med.]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:35 AM, JohnGrisham said:

Definitely - and this is why i enjoy contributing to this forum, multiple view points help round out discussion!  I will say that i am biased towards pessimism on this specific topic, given the lack of support the medical school system has shown some of my colleagues with children, and seeing how much work taking care of two young children is for a single parent caregiver.  Definitely don't want to discourage OP, but rather ensure they get the most facts possible about the process through medical school to residency before embarking on the road of working towards pre-reqs etc.

 

Not sure if you can answer this, but do you feel that your friend(s) in med school with two kids had to sacrifice too much time with their children? In other words, Do you know if they ultimately regretted this path? I know it’s subjective, but I’m trying to learn as much as I can from different perspectives on here. And this idea of an unsupportive med school does deter me. I am genuinely worried medicine will not be worth the “lost time” with family and that I will ultimately regret my decision.
Seems like the main drawbacks wrt lost family time will probably be in clerkship and off-service rotations in residency (FM), but I may be totally ignorant on this. I was hoping that the pre-clerkship years wouldn’t be so bad? Maybe I should make a separate post asking parents for opinions (have only found limited info). Thanks In advance if you do have any suggestions