Unmatched Programs 2022

[Redpill]

https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/5ghtk65GRMw_R1_1_OverviewByDiscipline_EN.pdf

Surprised to see an anesthesia and Ob/Gyn spot left over this year, I thought it was a competitive year for both.

Lots of great urban spots for Family as well - Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, London...

 

[ChemPetE]

32 family med spots across Alberta. What has this govt done 

[Haribo7173]

7 UdeM IM spots 

Less competitive year for psych outside the big cities (and Quebec) it seems. 

[Redpill]

2 minutes ago, ChemPetE said:

32 family med spots across Alberta. What has this govt done 

I was wondering if it was based on recent government policies.

Anecdotally I also heard Alberta was quite selective with who they invited - heard of a candidate who didn't get the interview but matched to a competitive Lower Mainland site in BC

[JohnGrisham]

15 minutes ago, Redpill said:

I was wondering if it was based on recent government policies.

Anecdotally I also heard Alberta was quite selective with who they invited - heard of a candidate who didn't get the interview but matched to a competitive Lower Mainland site in BC

Alberta is hit or miss for FM invites historically - they prefer to be overly selective, and then fill their spots in 2nd round with "more competitive" applicants who may have not matched to a 5 year program? Or to leave empty spots for their own albertan CMGs who might have gone unmatched to a 5 year program? Thats what i can infer based on the previous cycles where trainees i know didn't even get intervews at one or both of the albertan schools but got interviews everywhere else and matched to strong FM programs etc. 

[Findanus]

The second round is always so brutal. Even pathology is looking like it is filling up more than before.

[frenchpress]

16 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Alberta is hit or miss for FM invites historically - they prefer to be overly selective, and then fill their spots in 2nd round with "more competitive" applicants who may have not matched to a 5 year program? Or to leave empty spots for their own albertan CMGs who might have gone unmatched to a 5 year program? Thats what i can infer based on the previous cycles where trainees i know didn't even get intervews at one or both of the albertan schools but got interviews everywhere else and matched to strong FM programs etc. 

This is not accurate, at least not for my program - No one wanted to go to the 2nd round. Unless selective means not selecting people they legitimately think might do poorly in the program. If people aren’t getting invites I suspect it’s because their application had a red flag of some form or another.

I think differences in how schools review applications really factors in as well. For example, when a school like UBC bases the majority of the pre-interview score on personal letters,  and another school has a significant portion on references and file review, you’re going to get different pools of people filtering through. 

[fmgunner]

2 minutes ago, frenchpress said:

This is not accurate, at least not for my program - No one wanted to go to the 2nd round. Unless selective means not selecting people they legitimately think might do poorly in the program. If people aren’t getting invites I suspect it’s because their application had a red flag of some form or another.

Looks like your program needs to re-assess what it considers to be red flags then, at least given the match results (or lack thereof).

[Findanus]

Just now, fmgunner said:

Looks like your program needs to re-assess what it considers to be red flags then, at least given the match results (or lack thereof).

That begs the question though, why not have high standards? 

If I was a PD I'd rather my program go unfilled than end up with applicants that are undesirable.

[fmgunner]

1 minute ago, Findanus said:

That begs the question though, why not have high standards? 

If I was a PD I'd rather my program go unfilled than end up with applicants that are undesirable.

Alberta didn't even request a personal letter before declining interviewees. I have my doubts that their selectiveness has anything to do with "high standards"

[frenchpress]

9 minutes ago, fmgunner said:

Alberta didn't even request a personal letter before declining interviewees. I have my doubts that their selectiveness has anything to do with "high standards"

What are you talking about? There was a form of personal letter - applicants were asked to highlight things about themselves and why they wanted to come to the UofA, akin to the same information you get in a personal letter. They were just asked to distill it down to the highlights instead of writing an essay. 

Unless you were on the selection committees you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. The Alberta programs are interviewing hundreds and hundreds of applicants. Something larger is at play here. These sites aren’t filling because people aren’t ranking them high or not at all. It’s not because the programs decline to interview a small fraction of the applicants. 

[JohnGrisham]

18 minutes ago, frenchpress said:

This is not accurate, at least not for my program - No one wanted to go to the 2nd round. Unless selective means not selecting people they legitimately think might do poorly in the program. If people aren’t getting invites I suspect it’s because their application had a red flag of some form or another.

I'd respectfully disagree, based only on my own anecdotes and those who went through carms over the last 4 years - many trainees who got interviews all across Canada but Alberta 1 or both did not grant interviews to keen FM gunners who matched to otherwise strong programs outside of Alberta.

[8rue]

Surprised at some of the open spots.

Anecdotally, UdeM didn't send out too many IM interview invites this year. Seems like they miscalculated and it came back to bite them, 7 spots unfilled.

This has been a historically uncompetitive year for neurology as well, with a stunning 8 spots left open across the country.

[Xbox Skully]

There seems to be quite a few img or competitive spots left in fm. Does that always happen or is this year an off year?

[frenchpress]

1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said:

I'd respectfully disagree, based only on my own anecdotes and those who went through carms over the last 4 years - many trainees who got interviews all across Canada but Alberta 1 or both did not grant interviews to keen FM gunners who matched to otherwise strong programs outside of Alberta.

But how many of those applicants, even if they got those interviews, would have actually ranked Alberta programs higher than the ones that they ultimately ended up in? It doesn’t matter how many people the programs interview and rank if the applicants don’t rank those programs back. 

[indefatigable]

2 hours ago, Xbox Skully said:

There seems to be quite a few img or competitive spots left in fm. Does that always happen or is this year an off year?

Par for the course for Dalhousie and Sask.

Lots of CMG spots in Calgary, McMaster, NOSM, UofA and Western.   English-speaking Ottawa basically filled up this year.  Unusual to see a UBC FM spot left open and also how Manitoba & Memorial ! filled up better than the previously mentioned schools.

Besides neurology (&peds nuerology) pediatrics and psychiatry have quite a few spots.  Anesthesia, IM, NeuroSx, ObsGyn, PM&R and RadOnc round out the more competitive disciplines with a left over spot or two.  

[JohnGrisham]

1 hour ago, frenchpress said:

But how many of those applicants, even if they got those interviews, would have actually ranked Alberta programs higher than the ones that they ultimately ended up in? It doesn’t matter how many people the programs interview and rank if the applicants don’t rank those programs back. 

West coast home program, so quite highly if they were given the option to interview.

[Redpill]

40 minutes ago, indefatigable said:

Par for the course for Dalhousie and Sask.

Lots of CMG spots in Calgary, McMaster, NOSM, UofA and Western.   English-speaking Ottawa basically filled up this year.  Unusual to see a UBC FM spot left open and also how Manitoba & Memorial ! filled up better than the previously mentioned schools.

Besides neurology (&peds nuerology) pediatrics and psychiatry have quite a few spots.  Anesthesia, IM, NeuroSx, ObsGyn, PM&R and RadOnc round out the more competitive disciplines with a left over spot or two.  

The UBC spot is about as north as you can go in the province, it is very remote. You're right its unusual its not filled, but its definitely not in the more popular parts of the province. You also likely had to fill in the northern supplemental application in order to be competitive, I can see those sites not ranking individuals who they feel won't be good fits for a rural/remote training experience (it's certainly not for everyone).

[NewClerk]

5 minutes ago, Redpill said:

The UBC spot is about as north as you can go in the province, it is very remote. You're right its unusual its not filled, but its definitely not in the more popular parts of the province. You also likely had to fill in the northern supplemental application in order to be competitive, I can see those sites not ranking individuals who they feel won't be good fits for a rural/remote training experience (it's certainly not for everyone).

Which training site is it?

[Redpill]

8 minutes ago, NewClerk said:

Which training site is it?

Fort St. John

Worth mapping out on Google Maps to see how far it is from everything

[rmorelan]

3 hours ago, Findanus said:

That begs the question though, why not have high standards? 

If I was a PD I'd rather my program go unfilled than end up with applicants that are undesirable.

If those were the only options of course   

But likely there are desirable people that just matched somewhere else or perhaps not at all. 

Having unfilled spots truly is a royal pain in the ass - you have a round 2 process to go though with people that may not otherwise be interested in your problem, and if end up with unfilled spots in the end you are stuck with issues with staffing (call has to be filled no matter what so empty spots hurt residents and hurt residents make a PDs life worse). 

Messy - point I guess is you can be overly selective and that isn't a good thing. 

[insomnias]

18 hours ago, frenchpress said:

What are you talking about? There was a form of personal letter - applicants were asked to highlight things about themselves and why they wanted to come to the UofA, akin to the same information you get in a personal letter. They were just asked to distill it down to the highlights instead of writing an essay. 

Unless you were on the selection committees you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. The Alberta programs are interviewing hundreds and hundreds of applicants. Something larger is at play here. These sites aren’t filling because people aren’t ranking them high or not at all. It’s not because the programs decline to interview a small fraction of the applicants. 

As an applicant who interviewed at AB, two things probably affected this: the FM-PRoC, and the interview itself. I found the urban interview to be bizarre (I won't elaborate further for obvious reasons), and I have friends who shared that view. Those of us who ranked AB high did so because of location. If we didn't want to be in Edmonton, it would've been ranked much lower. Applicants from other schools probably didn't want to be in Edmonton as strongly, and so the interview brought the program lower down.

[Findanus]

18 hours ago, rmorelan said:

If those were the only options of course   

But likely there are desirable people that just matched somewhere else or perhaps not at all. 

Having unfilled spots truly is a royal pain in the ass - you have a round 2 process to go though with people that may not otherwise be interested in your problem, and if end up with unfilled spots in the end you are stuck with issues with staffing (call has to be filled no matter what so empty spots hurt residents and hurt residents make a PDs life worse). 

Messy - point I guess is you can be overly selective and that isn't a good thing. 

Good points. I'm commenting from my perspective as a pathologist. Pathology residency programs can afford to be more selective since residents add work rather than add value. Yet what I see is that pathology tends to act as a dumping ground in some cases, and it really doesn't have to be.

[Redpill]

9 hours ago, insomnias said:

As an applicant who interviewed at AB, two things probably affected this: the FM-PRoC, and the interview itself. I found the urban interview to be bizarre (I won't elaborate further for obvious reasons), and I have friends who shared that view. Those of us who ranked AB high did so because of location. If we didn't want to be in Edmonton, it would've been ranked much lower. Applicants from other schools probably didn't want to be in Edmonton as strongly, and so the interview brought the program lower down.

Curious why the FM-PRoC was a negative for Alberta? Or would you say it was a negative for all 6 programs that went with the test?

[quibble]

8 minutes ago, Redpill said:

Curious why the FM-PRoC was a negative for Alberta? Or would you say it was a negative for all 6 programs that went with the test?

It was such an unnecessary test. In the current situation where family medicine is becoming less and less attractive, I fail to understand why every institution in the pathway is erecting barriers to apply.

 

(1) This FM-PROC business.

(2) The CFPC wanting to make FM a 3-year residency. The 3-year residency is going to be the last nail in the coffin. People might as well do IM at that point.

(3) I also think the 8-week elective cap imposed by the AFMC had an unintended effect of decreasing FM match rates. People are now backing up with IM much more than with FM. For the past two years (since the elective cap has been imposed), the # of applications that IM programs have received are double what they used to be. 

(4) Gov't and negotiating bodies' failure to address relativity. 

 

I think all institutions have a role to play in the current situation. FM is dying by a thousand cuts.