Doing a second residency?

[health&wellness&balance]

What options does one have to pursue a second residency after they finish their first one. 

I will finish my FM residency by the age of 28, and I truly don't feel that I have a strong interest to pursue FM for the rest of my life and I'd like to specialize. What options does one have to do another residency?

[Aetherus]

My understanding is that you can do the following:

1. Apply to second Iteration of CARMS for the left over spots.

2. Go through the Military spots

3. Go to the USA to do a second residency (which can sometimes be advantageous from a time perspective because the Family med is considered as your internship and then for many specialties, they are only 3 years total (1 internship and 3 of the residency).

 

[quacksflaptogether]

The Ontario Re-Entry program is also something worth looking into: https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/hhrsd/physicians/reentry.aspx

"Physicians practicing in Canada seeking to re-enter residency training can apply for the Re-Entry program.

The program offers flexibility for experienced physicians to re-train in a new area of interest. The program also addresses the need for a diversity of physician services in Ontario.

The Re-Entry program has a two-year full-time return of service (ROS) requirement after training. This can be completed anywhere in Ontario."

[frenchpress]

UofA also has a re-entry program, although details are sparse. You need to have been in practice at least 5 years though, and it’s subject to rotating needs. I have encountered a couple people who did this in my training.

https://www.ualberta.ca/medicine/programs/postgraduate-medical-education/applicants/apply-for-residency1/re-entry.html

[bearded frog]

Realistically as said above it's second round carms/US match or re-entry. Consider a FM niche instead.

[Lavarball]

Why not a plus one in anesthesia or EM or something instead of pursuing a completely new residency.

[gogogo]

Sorry that FM isn’t what you’re looking for. I hope you can find a new path that is more fulfilling.

I’m about to apply for FM through CaRMS, so I’d like to know your thoughts. Can you please elaborate here or in a PM on why FM isn’t for you, and why you think a specialty is a better choice?

[health&wellness&balance]

10 minutes ago, gogogo said:

Sorry that FM isn’t what you’re looking for. I hope you can find a new path that is more fulfilling.

I’m about to apply for FM through CaRMS, so I’d like to know your thoughts. Can you please elaborate here or in a PM on why FM isn’t for you, and why you think a specialty is a better choice?

FM was not my first choice specialty in CaRMS ( I applied to a very competitive specialty in CaRMS but ended up in FM).  I am not a generalist by nature. I also really enjoy learning things in depth and having a deeper understanding of disease pathophysiology.  

[health&wellness&balance]

3 hours ago, Lavarball said:

Why not a plus one in anesthesia or EM or something instead of pursuing a completely new residency.

Thanks for your suggestion, however, I think I will find fulfillment in learning one area of medicine in detail and becoming an expert in a subspecialty in medicine. 

[health&wellness&balance]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:45 PM, bearded frog said:

Realistically as said above it's second round carms/US match or re-entry. Consider a FM niche instead.

Thanks for your advice. I will look into these options.

[health&wellness&balance]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:56 AM, Aetherus said:

My understanding is that you can do the following:

1. Apply to second Iteration of CARMS for the left over spots.

2. Go through the Military spots

3. Go to the USA to do a second residency (which can sometimes be advantageous from a time perspective because the Family med is considered as your internship and then for many specialties, they are only 3 years total (1 internship and 3 of the residency).

 

Thank you for your thorough response.

[health&wellness&balance]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:23 AM, quacksflaptogether said:

The Ontario Re-Entry program is also something worth looking into: https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/hhrsd/physicians/reentry.aspx

"Physicians practicing in Canada seeking to re-enter residency training can apply for the Re-Entry program.

The program offers flexibility for experienced physicians to re-train in a new area of interest. The program also addresses the need for a diversity of physician services in Ontario.

The Re-Entry program has a two-year full-time return of service (ROS) requirement after training. This can be completed anywhere in Ontario."

 

On 1/15/2022 at 1:08 PM, frenchpress said:

UofA also has a re-entry program, although details are sparse. You need to have been in practice at least 5 years though, and it’s subject to rotating needs. I have encountered a couple people who did this in my training.

https://www.ualberta.ca/medicine/programs/postgraduate-medical-education/applicants/apply-for-residency1/re-entry.html

Thanks!

[rmorelan]

6 minutes ago, health&wellness&balance said:

Thanks for your advice. I will look into these options.

good luck! I have seen it done a few times so it is possible. Plus you do end up with abilities to practise in both areas which can be useful.

[carmsregrets]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:22 AM, health&wellness&balance said:

What options does one have to pursue a second residency after they finish their first one. 

I will finish my FM residency by the age of 28, and I truly don't feel that I have a strong interest to pursue FM for the rest of my life and I'd like to specialize. What options does one have to do another residency?

.

[JohnGrisham]

You are very young, and already have FM training and the ability to locum and make very good money while you figure out re-entry. Figure out all the option and come up with a plan, and go for it! Keep your FM license active as long as you can, and work walk-ins etc during your 2nd residency to protect your financial future.

[shikimate]

not worth it from economic POV IMHO.

another 5 years and basically you lose maybe 250K in earning per year. So that's 1.25 million bux you're missing at the beginning of your career, when you should be building up that equity.

Take that 1.25 mil, compound it x 20 years and at the end of your career it's almost like >4 million you're missing out

Like if you match to ophtho and expect to make 2 million a year after residency maybe the numbers will work out, but most other specialties I don't see the numbers working in your favor.

I'd tough it out in FM, get busy, get working, get accumulating. When you're semi retired and bored, maybe go for a second residency.

[Findanus]

8 minutes ago, shikimate said:

not worth it from economic POV IMHO.

another 5 years and basically you lose maybe 250K in earning per year. So that's 1.25 million bux you're missing at the beginning of your career, when you should be building up that equity.

Take that 1.25 mil, compound it x 20 years and at the end of your career it's almost like >4 million you're missing out

I'd tough it out in FM, get busy, get working, get accumulating.

When you're semi retired and bored, maybe go for a second residency.

Economically you make a good argument provided the OP does not want to move to the USA and pursue a lucrative field there. For instance if he wants to match to radiology and practice there, he's still financially ahead.  They make 500k USD, which is approximately 650 CAD, and that is on average. If they work it out they could make far, far more. 

Plus there is the issue of the economic strength of Canada, which I am very pessimistic about. The USA has a stable diversified economy. Canada has legacy companies, real estate and Shopify.

Plus going back to residency when you're older and more settled is way harder due to life commitments and health issues that come up with age.

I think the OP should do it. Canada has few options for retraining so I think he should concentrate on making an application for the USA.

 

 

[lovemedicinesomuch]

4 hours ago, shikimate said:

not worth it from economic POV IMHO.

another 5 years and basically you lose maybe 250K in earning per year. So that's 1.25 million bux you're missing at the beginning of your career, when you should be building up that equity.

Take that 1.25 mil, compound it x 20 years and at the end of your career it's almost like >4 million you're missing out

Like if you match to ophtho and expect to make 2 million a year after residency maybe the numbers will work out, but most other specialties I don't see the numbers working in your favor.

I'd tough it out in FM, get busy, get working, get accumulating. When you're semi retired and bored, maybe go for a second residency.

Generally, I agree with you, but if you are pursing something like derm, opth, rads, or any surgical specialty in the US it is definitely more financially worthwhile compared to FM in the long run.

 

[lovemedicinesomuch]

5 hours ago, Findanus said:

Economically you make a good argument provided the OP does not want to move to the USA and pursue a lucrative field there. For instance if he wants to match to radiology and practice there, he's still financially ahead.  They make 500k USD, which is approximately 650 CAD, and that is on average. If they work it out they could make far, far more. 

Plus there is the issue of the economic strength of Canada, which I am very pessimistic about. The USA has a stable diversified economy. Canada has legacy companies, real estate and Shopify.

Plus going back to residency when you're older and more settled is way harder due to life commitments and health issues that come up with age.

I think the OP should do it. Canada has few options for retraining so I think he should concentrate on making an application for the USA.

 

 

I know a PGY-1 FM resident who left at the end of his first year to pursue a radiology residency in the US. I dont know how he managed to do it, but it is definitely doable.  Probably one has to finish USMLEs to qualify.

[GrAYthaiBOY]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:08 PM, Lavarball said:

Why not a plus one in anesthesia or EM or something instead of pursuing a completely new residency.

Is it true that many hospitals in ur an city centres implicitly/explicitly say they dont accept GP +1 ? 

[hero147]

5 hours ago, GrAYthaiBOY said:

Is it true that many hospitals in ur an city centres implicitly/explicitly say they dont accept GP +1 ? 

tough to get a job as a +1 anesthesia but GP+1 in emerg is not difficult. 

[carmsregrets]

10 minutes ago, hero147 said:

tough to get a job as a +1 anesthesia but GP+1 in emerg is not difficult. 

you can get some jobs at rural sites, but a lot of doctors have to also do some clinics as they are unable to do it full time.

W/ GP+1 emerg you can get jobs in the city, but it is quite difficult to get +1 in emerg in first place. Tons of people from class above me tried for the +1 in emerg and I think the failure rate was over 60% lol.